PSTN switchoff, will ONT phone ports be enabled?

While it will depend on the individual providers of course I wondered if there any OR plans to allow the use of the phone ports on the ONT or will be down to having support on the attached router?

I'm keen to keep access to a fixed phone (even if my traffic goes over my fibre) because mobile signal where I live is rather variable due to trees.

I would suspect not.

Based on the simple fact that both current ONT’s I have seen installed, the Huawei and the Nokia, no longer have FVA ports on them.

Hi Zarjaz

I'd hoped you might reply, appreciate it.

The FritzBox I have has phone support and a DECT base in it, so I'd just need to find a service when the time comes.

Edited by techguy (Sun 26-Jul-20 18:04:07)

Phone duties will pass to ISP-supplied equipment. Openreach don’t want to be in the business of handling telephone calls.

Edit: Also if you look at the services available there are definite incentives to moving this into the router - just looking at BT's Digital Voice you have HD voice, the ability to make multiple calls at the same time, call rejection at a network level.

Edited by jpm (Sun 26-Jul-20 21:13:51)

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

I would suspect not.

Based on the simple fact that both current ONT’s I have seen installed, the Huawei and the Nokia, no longer have FVA ports on them.

Also, what is in it for Openreach? They are strongly positioning themselves as delivering Ethernet connectivity; they are doing all they can to stop managing racks of ATAs at exchanges and there would be no benefit to having to support ATAs in ONTs.

In reply to a post by Nick_W789:

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

I would suspect not.

Based on the simple fact that both current ONT’s I have seen installed, the Huawei and the Nokia, no longer have FVA ports on them.

Also, what is in it for Openreach? They are strongly positioning themselves as delivering Ethernet connectivity; they are doing all they can to stop managing racks of ATAs at exchanges and there would be no benefit to having to support ATAs in ONTs.

Agreed.

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

both current ONT’s I have seen installed, the Huawei and the Nokia

When you get a work request does it specify what type of ONT should be installed?

Re: poor mobile signal indoors, are you not able to use wifi calling on compatible network & handset? All of the major networks now support wifi calling, though with Vodafone and O2 its only voice, not voice + texts.

Not all of the physical networks support WiFi calling on PAYG, and of the virtual networks I believe only Sky and Virgin Mobile support WiFI calling. Its coming very very slowly.

Yeah sorry, should have said pay monthly contracts. ID Mobile is another MVNO which offers wifi calling.

Edited by deleted (Sun 26-Jul-20 19:46:48)

In reply to a post by dect:

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

both current ONT’s I have seen installed, the Huawei and the Nokia

When you get a work request does it specify what type of ONT should be installed?

Yes, I have read where engineers have fitted the wrong ONT then had to change it.

How do you find out which brand specific supplies the customer.

Can it be accessed by the public.?

In reply to a post by jchamier:

I believe only Sky and Virgin Mobile support WiFI calling.

... Three do wifi calling although I've just moved from them to PlusNet (EE) after I got an email which set my back up when they said I would be "moved to a contract unless they heard from me.".

I too am in position of poor mobile signal, no wifi calling, and TalkTalk looking like they will not support 'landline' of any sort. At the moment am considering porting number to Sipgate before my FTTP is installed.

I went to AAISP, around £1.20 a month for line, calls extra. I use a Cisco SPA-112 ATA.

In reply to a post by longedge:

... Three do wifi calling although I've just moved from them to PlusNet (EE) after I got an email which set my back up when they said I would be "moved to a contract unless they heard from me.".

A friend of mine moved from Plusnet to Three because EE turned off a (tiny) transmitter near his home, and his indoor coverage is now useless on all networks. C’est la vie!

How do you find out which brand specific supplies the customer.

You have to look at the head end manufacturer on the fibre routing screen within the MyJobs app.

Can it be accessed by the public.?

‘ course not. 😊

But EE offer wifi calling .... in fact that’s the reason I switched to them in the first place.

Yes, but Plusnet (an MVNO on EE) don’t. He was with Plusnet. Three was cheaper than EE.

In reply to a post by busterboy:

Yes, I have read where engineers have fitted the wrong ONT then had to change it.

How do you find out which brand specific supplies the customer.

Can it be accessed by the public.?

That could be difficult even if they wanted to make it public.

An exchange can have 2 different OLT manufacturer in it providing FTTP.

A street could be connected to a Huawei OLT while the next street down on a more recent deployment could be on a Nokia OLT.
In that scenario 2 people ordering on the same day from 1 Street away would both get different ONT's.

In reply to a post by j0hn83:

In reply to a post by busterboy:

Yes, I have read where engineers have fitted the wrong ONT then had to change it.

How do you find out which brand specific supplies the customer.

Can it be accessed by the public.?

That could be difficult even if they wanted to make it public.

An exchange can have 2 different OLT manufacturer in it providing FTTP.

A street could be connected to a Huawei OLT while the next street down on a more recent deployment could be on a Nokia OLT.
In that scenario 2 people ordering on the same day from 1 Street away would both get different ONT's.

Mmmmmm very interesting.

In reply to a post by busterboy:

In reply to a post by j0hn83:

In reply to a post by busterboy:

Yes, I have read where engineers have fitted the wrong ONT then had to change it.

How do you find out which brand specific supplies the customer.

Can it be accessed by the public.?

That could be difficult even if they wanted to make it public.

An exchange can have 2 different OLT manufacturer in it providing FTTP.

A street could be connected to a Huawei OLT while the next street down on a more recent deployment could be on a Nokia OLT.
In that scenario 2 people ordering on the same day from 1 Street away would both get different ONT's.

Mmmmmm very interesting.

Hi Tim

I can read your mind you're worrying if your nearly completed FTTP infrastructure will be connected to an older ECI OLT which would prevent you from being able to order the full 1 Gbps package. Its extremely unlikely, it more likely to be Huawei or Nokia so you should be fine.

In reply to a post by jpm:

Phone duties will pass to ISP-supplied equipment. Openreach don’t want to be in the business of handling telephone calls.

Edit: Also if you look at the services available there are definite incentives to moving this into the router - just looking at BT's Digital Voice you have HD voice, the ability to make multiple calls at the same time, call rejection at a network level.

Any idea what codec they're using for DV? Otherwise it reads very much just like another hosted VoIP service.

Is it entirely possible for the fttc side to be covered huawei and the fttp head-end by nokia?

Sorry Zarjaz, i'm asking these type of questions not annoy but those ones that pop in one's head and is afraid to ask 😁

I have no idea. I know that it provides actual HD quality when calling a BT/EE mobile, and somehow manages to put an 'HD' logo on screen when I call it from my works' SIP trunk - though I would imagine this is just what happens if the call is identified as VoIP end-to-end as there are no HD codecs enabled on our SIP trunk.

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

I would suspect not.

Its a shame they didn't stay using the FVA port, they could of just stuck hardware at the required exchange that converts over to the required protocol they wanted.
That way they wouldn't be wasting that bit of ONT hardware.

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

Based on the simple fact that both current ONT’s I have seen installed, the Huawei and the Nokia, no longer have FVA ports on them.

Well we are still on that port, BT have told me that they will keep us on there until the absolute very last possible moment and that they will notify me months before hand.

I am taking that as a pinch of salt due to BT have said one thing in the past and did something completely different.

TBH I am hoping by that time BT will offer more options to provide the (Digital Voice) phone service, due to I am not a fan on being forced to use their SH2.

But we have a little while yet, so it might all turn out good by then.

Paul

That could well be a possible scenario.

In reply to a post by dect:

I can read your mind you're worrying if your nearly completed FTTP infrastructure will be connected to an older ECI OLT which would prevent you from being able to order the full 1 Gbps package. Its extremely unlikely, it more likely to be Huawei or Nokia so you should be fine.

You know me well dect.

I'm expecting solo ata and or handset base stations to have network access (wired or wifi) to appear .. The bigger problem will be how the less techy section of joe public will be catered for

In reply to a post by jpm:

I have no idea. I know that it provides actual HD quality when calling a BT/EE mobile, and somehow manages to put an 'HD' logo on screen when I call it from my works' SIP trunk - though I would imagine this is just what happens if the call is identified as VoIP end-to-end as there are no HD codecs enabled on our SIP trunk.

Can't find anything from BT to suggest what they use, but I expect they'll use a combination of codecs to support regular/standard bandwidth POTS using G.711u/a and probably a combo of G.722, G.729 and quite possibly Opus also for wideband codecs / "HD" voice calls.

I know for example that Sipgate use G.729 and G.726 for wideband codec support. The Cisco phone on my desk supports G.729 and G.722 amongst some others, so calls connect at "HD" using G.729 here.

In reply to a post by Taras:

I'm expecting solo ata and or handset base stations to have network access (wired or wifi) to appear .. The bigger problem will be how the less techy section of joe public will be catered for

BT Business already offer a pre-configured VOIP (IP) dect handset for Digital Voice, you simply plug its base station into any router to use the service - zero configuration req'd.This is the kit which BT sent me (free), I imagine their Residential sibing will also start offering something similar for those that want to use Digital Voice with their own routers:

https://business.bt.com/content/dam/bt/business/v2/P...

I did ask BTB for the SIP login credentials as the Yealink handset is locked down but they weren't willing to give out this info. But not a big deal, as I can make/receive landline calls using the BT Cloud Voice app on my smartphone.

Edited by deleted (Mon 27-Jul-20 09:02:41)

In reply to a post by Taras:

I'm expecting solo ata and or handset base stations to have network access (wired or wifi) to appear .. The bigger problem will be how the less techy section of joe public will be catered for

Yeah, I am hoping for an ethernet based handset or an ethernet based device that allows for a phone to go into that, but either of those two would be fine.

On a similar subject to do with BT's Digital Voice, I did think the other week (not yet tried it myself) was suppose I am using my own 3rd party router which comes with a PPPoE Server.

Now what if I set my router to pass the PPPoE Server to say port 5 and I connect that to the SH2 WAN Port, and I would have the SH2 authenticate with my router ( i.e. user [email protected], etc ) and I block PPP from that port reaching the internet.
In theory the SH2 would have connection to the internet, but just another hop in its route.

I wouldn't be using the SH2 for the internet, I would be using my router for that, I was wondering would the digital voice side of it work ?
Like would it be happy to pass through my router to get to BT's, or would the SH2 just fail to connect.

There is no way for me to test it myself due to I don't want to move over to that yet until I have the option to get a ethernet based phone for use on it.

Paul

I think if you're expecting a separate ATA from BT's residential department to use with your own router you will be disappointed - the key to making this transition work is for it to be as simple as the existing landline service, and I really can't see them putting the R&D time into an ATA product which a very small number of people are going to opt for, especially when the people most likely to even know about ATAs and 3rd party routers will also have their preferred SIP providers already.

In reply to a post by Highland76:

BT Business already offer a pre-configured VOIP (IP) dect handset for Digital Voice, you simply plug its base station into any router to use the service - zero configuration req'd.This is the kit which BT sent me (free), I imagine their Residential sibing will also start offering something similar for those that want to use Digital Voice with their own routers:

https://business.bt.com/content/dam/bt/business/v2/P...

Yeah, I even told BT I would be happy to even pay for that handset if it allowed me to use my own router, BT told me that that wasn't an option at the moment, but they are still looking into different ways to provide that service, so maybe that might become an option.

Paul

In reply to a post by PaulKirby:

In reply to a post by Highland76:

BT Business already offer a pre-configured VOIP (IP) dect handset for Digital Voice, you simply plug its base station into any router to use the service - zero configuration req'd.This is the kit which BT sent me (free), I imagine their Residential sibing will also start offering something similar for those that want to use Digital Voice with their own routers:

https://business.bt.com/content/dam/bt/business/v2/P...

Yeah, I even told BT I would be happy to even pay for that handset if it allowed me to use my own router, BT told me that that wasn't an option at the moment, but they are still looking into different ways to provide that service, so maybe that might become an option.

Paul

You can use mine as its collecting dust

Seriously though, its only a matter of time before BT residential start offering IP dect handsets as standard like their Business sibling does already.

In reply to a post by Highland76:

In reply to a post by PaulKirby:

Yeah, I even told BT I would be happy to even pay for that handset if it allowed me to use my own router, BT told me that that wasn't an option at the moment, but they are still looking into different ways to provide that service, so maybe that might become an option.

You can use mine as its collecting dust

If only it was that easy, sadly BT probably still owns that handset hence it being free.
Plus it might use different login information too.

In reply to a post by Highland76:

Seriously though, its only a matter of time before BT residential start offering IP dect handsets as standard like their Business sibling does already.

Yeah one can only hope, but the is a while yet until the switch off, so there is still time

Paul

In reply to a post by Highland76:

Seriously though, its only a matter of time before BT residential start offering IP dect handsets as standard like their Business sibling does already.

Or else BT residential started offering standalone FTTP without mandatory associated voice service.

You could then easily migrate your voice service to a different provider, without needing to jump through hoops such as renumber with number export.

Seperate atas may happen or ones inbult into the base unit. The config can be done via tr69 and if you move service provider, either they chuck the details to the or, you could just phone a number and it will update the unit for provider specifics.

Or we could sim cards for landlines - which resolve it even further.

In reply to a post by Taras:

Or we could sim cards for landlines - which resolve it even further.

Make mine an eSIM while we are dreaming

Am quite a low user as tend to avoid phones when I'm not working so I stay on PAYG (curently giffgaff)

I also tend to buy low to lower mid range mobile phone devices SIM free so I don't have to wait for service providers to pump the firmware full of bloatware or in their words (and I quote) 'optimise the customer experience with their networks'

In my own experience this tends to lead to firmware being sat on for months or not released at all, not great for the customer in my view and of course no wi-fi calling

I am, and always have been an Android user by the way.

But we digress, many thanks for all input, you have more than comprehensively answered my question.


Best to all of you and stay safe, time to spin up the work laptop and get on with the day job.