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Standard User StuB
(committed) Mon 24-Aug-20 20:00:39
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Ordering FTTC - Low estimated speed and possible line fault


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A friend currently has BT ADSL and gets about 17MB down and less than 1 up. The conection is quite flaky and seems to be worse recently after the recent lightning.

I suggested ordering FTTC however BT say they'll get 9 mbps down and 1 mbps up and the wholesale checker suggest 17/1. Either way the upload is poor.

The house is an old house and the phone wiring hasn't been changed in a long time and there is no normal BT master socket.

It looks like the overhead cable comes from the pole to the eaves of the house where it goes to a small box before being split into two wires each going to an internal phone socket. Only the one socket is used nowadays.

Their pole serves 5 other properties and all but one of those can get 80/20 via FTTC.

All of the properties look to be served from the same cabinet although I'm not actually sure where it is. Not that it matters for FTTC but the actual exchange is less than 200m away.

In my view I think the wiring is to blame for the poor speeds reported by fibre but as there is no master socket or easy way to disconnect the extensions it's not easy to check ourselves?

What's the best way to get it resolved, I don't want them to sign to a fibre contract to be told that 9/1 is the best they can get?

FTTP is being rolled out in the area and is near to them but they can't get it yet.

If needed I can provide postcodes and further property details via PM.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Mon 24-Aug-20 21:27:17
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Re: Ordering FTTC - Low estimated speed and possible line fa


[re: StuB] [link to this post]
 
Needs someone to have a look at the address details, alas been in desk chair since 8am so taking a break for the night.

if the checker is wrong and the physical distance is short and the house wiring does not impede service speeds, then if a provider orders a 40/10 product with sales estimate of 9/1 when the person connects the only limit is the 40/10, so if line is short and can go fast it will go as fast as it can. Sales estimates do not impose a cap.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User StuB
(committed) Mon 24-Aug-20 23:11:11
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Re: Ordering FTTC - Low estimated speed and possible line fa


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Thanks for the reply.

If they order FTTC and it only gives the 9/1 speeds expected then where do they go from there?

Where does the responsibility for the wiring change?

My understanding is that the master socket and before is BT's responsibility and anything after that is the customer's however in this case there isn't a master socket and the cabling splits where the cable is attached at the eaves.


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Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Tue 25-Aug-20 01:03:01
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Re: Ordering FTTC - Low estimated speed and possible line fa


[re: StuB] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by StuB:
Thanks for the reply.

If they order FTTC and it only gives the 9/1 speeds expected then where do they go from there?

Where does the responsibility for the wiring change?

My understanding is that the master socket and before is BT's responsibility and anything after that is the customer's however in this case there isn't a master socket and the cabling splits where the cable is attached at the eaves.
The split of the cabling at the eaves is the problem. If you look just below the table in the BT Wholesale estimator I expect you will see "Bridge tap detected", which is the technical term for that.

It badly affects ADSLx, costing as much as 2.5Mbps connection speed, and is even more damaging on FTTC. The BTW estimates themselves for a given line/property adjust over time to the actuals.

If there is any safe way you can identify (with certainty) and disconnect the unused wire from the eaves inside the box on the eaves and just tape over the disconnected wires so they don't cause a short circuit with anything, then even the existing connection will improve.

Technically you are not allowed to do this, but plenty of people do similar. Almost all though with bridge taps existing inside the premises, which is much safer for the person doing it.

If you/they managed to get the chosen provider to order an engineer install of the FTTC because of this problem, it will cost a little more to install but sorting out bridge taps and other potential problems is what that service is for.

These days I'm not sure if the cheaper providers offer engineer installs, but that isn't something I can help with.

__________________________________________________________
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My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, sites and mail hosting - Tsohost & Ionos.
Connections: OnePlus 8 Pro max 165Mbps down, 24Mbps up on Three, and B311 4G, tbb tests normally 35-45Mpbs down, 65Mbps off-peak, 9-24 up.
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Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Tue 25-Aug-20 02:07:53
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Re: Ordering FTTC - Low estimated speed and possible line fa


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
After further thought, forget the DIY (or suitable person) idea. A modern NTE is needed anyway for FTTC, rather than any workaround to use the existing socket.

An engineer install is by far the wisest course of action. Failing that, a two-stage approach, the first stage being paying Openreach (arranged through the existing provider) to sort out that wiring. Probable cost quite a bit above £100.

An engineer install of FTTC including the wiring and socket fixes would almost certainly be cheaper, plus some sort of warranty.

__________________________________________________________
Sovereignty Means Sovereignty

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, sites and mail hosting - Tsohost & Ionos.
Connections: OnePlus 8 Pro max 165Mbps down, 24Mbps up on Three, and B311 4G, tbb tests normally 35-45Mpbs down, 65Mbps off-peak, 9-24 up.
========================
To argue with mindless bigots is foolish.

Edited by RobertoS (Tue 25-Aug-20 02:08:25)

Standard User candlerb
(experienced) Tue 25-Aug-20 09:44:12
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Re: Ordering FTTC - Low estimated speed and possible line fa


[re: StuB] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by StuB:
I suggested ordering FTTC however BT say they'll get 9 mbps down and 1 mbps up and the wholesale checker suggest 17/1. Either way the upload is poor.


Can you show a screenshot of the wholesale checker output - with phone number blanked out, but showing the exchange and cabinet?

It is suspicious that the FTTC estimate of 17/1 is exactly what the user is currently getting on ADSL.

I wonder if this is actually an ADSL estimate, and FTTC is unavailable for some reason.

For an FTTC line where the neighbours are getting 80/20 I would not expect a bridge tap to bring the speed down so much.
Standard User StuB
(committed) Tue 25-Aug-20 11:10:12
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Re: Ordering FTTC - Low estimated speed and possible line fa


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Thanks for the reply Bob.

I'd never heard of the term 'bridge tap' so thanks for that. If the wiring was inside I'd consider doing it myself however up at the eaves and at someone else's house then an engineer can sort it.

Any specific ISP's for an FTTC install that would be better to sort out an engineer install?

Is there any way to get an engineer FTTC install and guarantee a better speed than quoted or will they all fall back on the speeds quoted by the checker?
Standard User BLaZiNgSPEED
(member) Tue 25-Aug-20 12:01:05
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Re: Ordering FTTC - Low estimated speed and possible line fa


[re: StuB] [link to this post]
 
You can try joining an ISP like Vodafone FTTC that would install a new telephone line for free which will eliminate all the internal wiring issues.

But, if the estimate speeds are low and goes up to 17Mbps then there is no way a new line will solve the problem.

Check this site here https://www.broadbandchecker.btwholesale.com/#/ADSL
Enter phone number or postcode and check for your estimated speeds. It is unlikely that 17Mbps is the highest attainable speed under FTTC even with a 1km long cabinet for example.

At the very least 24-30Mbps should be receivable under FTTC. If those estimates are low then your line should not make much of a difference at all. An Openreach engineer will be able to verify that as he has a device which he will connect to the master socket and will measure your estimated speeds.

I had an engineer come for my FTTC in February to install a VDSL Faceplate which has a pre-built filter that way you won't need separate micro filter. This can improve speed performance and reliability under FTTC. My estimates according to his device were between 70-83Mbps. And indeed I get Full 80/20Mbps speed under router and speed tests with TalkTalk.
Standard User StuB
(committed) Tue 25-Aug-20 12:28:09
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Re: Ordering FTTC - Low estimated speed and possible line fa


[re: candlerb] [link to this post]
 
I will get these done and uploaded shortly however I've just discovered that they do already have FTTC but with an ADSL filter inline with a HH6 and there sync speeds 3.8/0.8.

I'm just trying to find out more info but I'm doing it remotely and they aren't that clued up on everything, I'll report back shortly.
Standard User StuB
(committed) Tue 25-Aug-20 13:05:51
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Re: Ordering FTTC - Low estimated speed and possible line fa


[re: BLaZiNgSPEED] [link to this post]
 
OK, I now have a bit more info.

It appears they do have FTTC already and are using an ADSL filter (tried a couple of different one) with a HH6.

The details from the checker for their house are
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1jVjy0WajHxazYcS-Qyq...

And the details for one of the other houses connected to the same pole are
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1w7eC0fVS5l5_MiOkS8I...

All but one of the other houses connected to the same pole are the same, the other is about 65/15.

They've just tested the connected with nothing plugged in except for the HH6 via an ADSL filter and the technical log shows the connection speed is about 3.8/0.8 and the max connection speed is about 5/1.

I'll get a copy of the technical log posted shortly when they send it through.

Are ADSL filters the same as the NTE5 faceplate filter? (I appreciate the NTE5 is the better option.

They've just done a 17070 quiet line test and they described it as 'Like trying to listen to the top 10 in 1982'.

Hopefully that means they can report it as a fault and when they look at that it will also sort the fibre speeds out too.
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