Full FTTP go live

First FTTP goes live for Cuckoo Oak showing full fibre FTTP 1000/220 for Cabinet 7 & 9

My parents will getting FTTP soon.

https://ibb.co/fn042g2 for cabinet 9
https://ibb.co/ZgdVHVJ for cabinet 7

Edited by adslmax (Tue 29-Sep-20 18:29:30)

But you don’t want it .......

Pretty very poor upload from BT. Should be both download and upload same speed. It's 21st century not 19th century!

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

But you don’t want it .......

Pretty very poor upload from BT. Should be both download and upload same speed. It's 21st century not 19th century!

Yes I do want FTTP but happy with 80/80 FTTP rather than FTTC 80/20

FTTP is not cabinet based so unlikely it is going live for specific cabinets it more likely just happens that some of the people getting it on are on those cabinets.

While correct there is a pattern to the roll-outs in that areas of ducting/poles often go live in batches and these tend to follow old cabinet areas.

A side effect of reusing existing duct and poles and that some cabinets serve obviously defined areas

If 80/80 is what you want, then buy 900/110 and just throttle the 900 down to 110.

I will not buy 900/110. The standard one FTTP 80/20 will be more than enough. FTTP are lots better than FTTC (EVIL DLM)

I was going to suggest this also. Option of 80/80 is possible with being on the higher package and throttling it to the speeds required.

Hope the "Evil DLM" works if you ever need it in the event of a line fault and not cutting your service off completely or would you be satisfied with complete loss of service?

There is no DLM with FTTP

Was referring to the EVIL DLM on adslmax's FTTC, Sorry for the confusion

On FTTP myself 50/10

In reply to a post by thomaswarne01:

On FTTP myself 50/10

Which provider is that with? Openreach have never offered such a package as far as I am aware.

In reply to a post by thomaswarne01:

On FTTP myself 50/10

FTTP 50/10? There is no BTw sale on this!

TBB 50/10 Speedtest FTTP

I know you may not beleive the 50/10 FTTP but I have linked a speedtest, my neighbour is on the same package as us and I have looked up online to see if others have 50/10 and yes it is a thing.
BT Launch 55/10
Granted bt list it as 55/10 but we have never got faster than 51 and on the BT site under fibre it is listed as 50Mbps fibre 1 TBB article BT Fibre 1

Do some research if you don't believe people

That's is BT 55/10 on FTTC. That's not FTTP.

In a surprise move BTOpenreach has today unveiled a new middle tier bandwidth product for their Fibre-to-the-Cabinet (FTTC) and Fibre-to-the-Premises (FTTP) based “fibre broadband” services, which offers download speeds of up to 55Mbps and uploads of 10Mbps.

BT Openreach Launch New 55Mbps FTTC and FTTP Broadband Speed

BTw are NOT selling any FTTP 55/10. Only FTTC. I shall wait for MrSaffron to enquires of this?

I went to www.bt.com and click on full fibre available and got this result below:

The top one is FTTC bottom one is full fibre (FTTP):

https://ibb.co/7vrhmkp

Please do wait,
If BTw do not offer/do this then what am I paying for?
if the articles do not convince you nor the actual BT site, you may have never dealt with FTTP packages to believe the available options.
We have had fttp for 4 years now and BT list the deals over the phone every time the contract is up so they are either lying about the 55/10 and I am being mugged over

And as per the screenshot the options are for FTTP vary per premises as that is what we get.
Screenshot
The fibre essential is the FTTC Variant and the rest is FTTP as our copper lines are bad they installed FTTP in 2016

In reply to a post by adslmax:

BTw are NOT selling any FTTP 55/10.

BT Retail are: Fibre 1 and Fibre 2 are available on FTTP. Here's what they offer me:
https://imgur.com/330C1go

Note that Fibre Essential is at FTTC speed, but Fibre 1 and 2 are at FTTP speeds.

BT should say fibre 1 & 2 as Full Fibre (without it would be FTTC)

Ignore the comments, FTTP 55/10 has been a thing for some time now

Does "Fibre all the way to your door. With fibre to the premises or FTTP – we run the fibre all the way to your door. No sharing with your neighbours."

Make you happy?

In reply to a post by thomaswarne01:

TBB 50/10 Speedtest FTTP

I know you may not beleive the 50/10 FTTP but I have linked a speedtest, my neighbour is on the same package as us and I have looked up online to see if others have 50/10 and yes it is a thing.
BT Launch 55/10
Granted bt list it as 55/10 but we have never got faster than 51 and on the BT site under fibre it is listed as 50Mbps fibre 1 TBB article BT Fibre 1

Do some research if you don't believe people

The confusion arises from the difference between the technical aspects/specification of the Openreach 55/10 product you are on and correctly paying for, and the speeds ISPs are allowed to advertise on their websites and in the media. The ASA requires adverts to state nothing above what at least 10% of users of the product can actually receive.

In the case of BT Wholesale-based providers on FTTP this will generally be just below the limit imposed (for technical reasons) by the IP Profile. Almost all users of that product will get speed test result like yours, unlike distance variations on the equivalent FTTC 55/10.

If you check your line stats in (probably) the Troubleshooting section of your Hub GUI, you should see 55,000Kbps. Maybe 1 or 2 lower.

"The ASA requires adverts to state nothing above what at least 10% of users of the product can actually receive."

That was the old way, it now has to be median speed and has been for a while now

You could 40/10 on fttp, its not anything new.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

If you check your line stats in (probably) the Troubleshooting section of your Hub GUI, you should see 55,000Kbps. Maybe 1 or 2 lower.

If that's true, I'd be very interested to find out how the router can display this information.

The connection from the router to the ONT is ethernet, fixed at 1Gbps, and the GPON bit rate is fixed at 2.4G / 1.2G. The 55M profile is enforced either at the OLT or the BRAS, by throttling the rate of sending packets.

Does the PPPoE session add extra attributes giving the line profile details?

In reply to a post by adslmax:

I will not buy 900/110. The standard one FTTP 80/20 will be more than enough. FTTP are lots better than FTTC (EVIL DLM)

I suppose it should be more reliable, but to be honest DLM have improved a lot over the last few years.
My concern about FTTP is will providers start capping speeds and going back to the old traffic control if people start overloading the system?

DLM should not be a problem in most cases as long as your line stay stable.

In reply to a post by thomaswarne01:

In a surprise move BTOpenreach has today unveiled a new middle tier bandwidth product for their Fibre-to-the-Cabinet (FTTC) and Fibre-to-the-Premises (FTTP) based “fibre broadband” services, which offers download speeds of up to 55Mbps and uploads of 10Mbps.

BT Openreach Launch New 55Mbps FTTC and FTTP Broadband Speed

That is if you live close enough to the cabinet to get it, if you are using FTTC.

In reply to a post by candlerb:

Does the PPPoE session add extra attributes giving the line profile details?

Openreach don't. They don't provide any speed feedback at all on FTTP services. BT Wholesale could based on their records.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

Does "Fibre all the way to your door. With fibre to the premises or FTTP – we run the fibre all the way to your door. No sharing with your neighbours."

Make you happy?

Yet the 1st product under that description is FTTC

In reply to a post by adslmax:

I went to www.bt.com and click on full fibre available and got this result below:

The top one is FTTC bottom one is full fibre (FTTP):

https://ibb.co/7vrhmkp

Even in your screenshot only Fibre Essentials is FTTC.
The rest are FTTP.
That includes 55/10 on FTTP that you say doesn't exist.

That's how BT do it for most people with both FTTC/FTTP available.

if that the top screen are FTTC Fibre Essentials (just one of it) it shouldn't be on it. Misleading for full fibre!

Care to show me a screenshot where that phrase is turning up on a product page that is FTTC based.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

Care to show me a screenshot where that phrase is turning up on a product page that is FTTC based.

No probs.

https://ibb.co/GvQy9Xc

Edit: do you think that's right having that written above an FTTC product?

Edited by j0hn83 (Thu 01-Oct-20 21:54:48)

^^ this one MrSaffron.

In reply to a post by candlerb:

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

If you check your line stats in (probably) the Troubleshooting section of your Hub GUI, you should see 55,000Kbps. Maybe 1 or 2 lower.

If that's true, I'd be very interested to find out how the router can display this information.

The connection from the router to the ONT is ethernet, fixed at 1Gbps, and the GPON bit rate is fixed at 2.4G / 1.2G. The 55M profile is enforced either at the OLT or the BRAS, by throttling the rate of sending packets.

Does the PPPoE session add extra attributes giving the line profile details?

Thanks. It seems I was posting in ignorance.

I assumed that the product speed from Openreach would automatically result in a sync speed. Forgetting that sync is basically an analogue DSL concept. A lingering doubt that I had in what I posted is of course clear from the word "probably". Line stats as in what DSL users are used to obviously don't exist.

However there is still a difference between the Openreach-determined connection speed and the maximum attainable on any given line. BTW impose the IP Profile. Other providers do of course still need to restrict their output in one way or another to fractionally below the Openreach speed.

In reply to a post by candlerb:

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

If you check your line stats in (probably) the Troubleshooting section of your Hub GUI, you should see 55,000Kbps. Maybe 1 or 2 lower.

If that's true, I'd be very interested to find out how the router can display this information.

The connection from the router to the ONT is ethernet, fixed at 1Gbps, and the GPON bit rate is fixed at 2.4G / 1.2G. The 55M profile is enforced either at the OLT or the BRAS, by throttling the rate of sending packets.

Does the PPPoE session add extra attributes giving the line profile details?

I was wondering the same thing myself....but I see now it was an assumption / misunderstanding of how an OR based FTTP connection operates.

My router only displays the wire speed and straightforward connection stats of the Ethernet connection, nothing deeper really about the WAN profile. It’s been the same 1G port speed (obviously) since I moved from 330/30 to 900/110 other than the odd lightning strike which killed the router and ^%gj!* the Ethernet port on the ONT it only liked 100M then...till a replacement ONT came along.

Will be swapping routers this weekend. Hadn’t really occurred to me to look into whether RouterOS can display any further pppoe connection stats...not that bothered really.

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

Will be swapping routers this weekend. Hadn’t really occurred to me to look into whether RouterOS can display any further pppoe connection stats...not that bothered really.

/interface pppoe-client monitor 0

It shows the name and MAC address of the BRAS (access concentrator), but not other vendor-specific attributes.

There *are* DSL-forum attributes for Agent Remote-ID and DSL Line Characteristics - but I believe these are added to the PPPoE session presented to the BRAS, not to the user.

In reply to a post by candlerb:

/interface pppoe-client monitor 0

It shows the name and MAC address of the BRAS (access concentrator), but not other vendor-specific attributes.

There *are* DSL-forum attributes for Agent Remote-ID and DSL Line Characteristics - but I believe these are added to the PPPoE session presented to the BRAS, not to the user.

Openreach add line rate to VDSL and G.fast PPPoE / DHCPv4/6 sessions on their way to the provider, they do not add any line rate information for FTTP.

For obvious reasons really: once it's provisioned it doesn't change so unnecessary.

ISPs can of course also add their own information based on the product the customer subscribes to and inform customers that way but they pretty much universally don't see any need to.

In that screen shot case no.

NOTE: Different text to what I posted.

Also if you scroll the page the FTTP options are there, the assumption here is that due to the slow estimates on Fibre Essentials that it will be delivered via VDSL2. In some cases this is the case, in some it is not.

NOTE 2: There are several versions of what BT is presenting to the public, i.e. they have some A/B testing going on so not everyone is going to see the same thing.

Checking, an FTTP-only address provides 36-36 as the downstream range.

However, an FTTC/P address right next to the cabinet, literally it's just outside, gives a wider range of 33-36.

I'm thinking that estimate isn't reliable and we shouldn't pay too much attention to it, however I'd also say there's no reason for BT to provision 40/10 via FTTP, it costs more and doesn't contribute to volume discounts, and they should make clear that it isn't full fibre if that's the case.

In my view Full Fibre should be 330/500/900 end of! I disagree with Full Fibre for 40/50/80/100 as it will be very easy confused thinking it coming from FTTC or even G.fast.

In reply to a post by adslmax:

In my view Full Fibre should be 330/500/900 end of! I disagree with Full Fibre for 40/50/80/100 as it will be very easy confused thinking it coming from FTTC or even G.fast.

Are you saying that BT should refuse to sell someone FTTP 80M if their property has both copper and fibre present, even if FTTC is only capable of 10M ?!

The average user wouldn't care about how it is delivered just what the performance is. FTTP is better technology even for the lower tiers and so it makes sense for the end user for those options to be available to them. Plus, if someone only has FTTP available then why should they have to pay for a service that is higher than they "need".

In reply to a post by candlerb:

Are you saying that BT should refuse to sell someone FTTP 80M if their property has both copper and fibre present, even if FTTC is only capable of 10M ?!

No, but it shouldn't called full fibre. I don't see any problem as full fibre is no speed issues to every property in UK because you getting full speed all the way from the telephone exchange to your home plus there is no DLM or banded on the FTTP line.

Just highlighted the concerns in the news.

And raise this with ASA myself in due course. Very misleading MrSaffron.

Why isn't it full fibre? You can buy a 10Mb lease line over fibre - it is still full fibre. Full fibre is the technology not the delivered speed.

In reply to a post by adslmax:

In reply to a post by candlerb:

Are you saying that BT should refuse to sell someone FTTP 80M if their property has both copper and fibre present, even if FTTC is only capable of 10M ?!

No, but it shouldn't called full fibre. I don't see any problem as full fibre is no speed issues to every property in UK because you getting full speed all the way from the telephone exchange to your home plus there is no DLM or banded on the FTTP line.

The benefits of full fibre are as you describe: you always get the speed you pay for, and you get high reliability. However, those benefits are the same whether you buy 40M or 900M. 40M over full fibre is definitely better than 40M over copper.

I see the problem the other way round: that ISPs are selling the two products as "fibre", even though one is markedly better than the other. I understand the rationale - a 40M service is a 40M service - but in practice FTTC is less reliable, and less consistently delivers the headline figure.

The eventual solution is to stop selling FTTC at properties where FTTP is available, and that's exactly what Openreach wants to do - and is seeking regulatory approval for.

Not logged into the Smart Hub since I got it in late August for FTTP - has been truly plug and play

In reply to a post by adslmax:

... it shouldn't called full fibre. ...

It would have been better if VDSL had never been referred to as 'fibre', that way we wouldn't have millions of people thinking they had a fibre connection, and BT would not need to call FTTP 'full fibre'.

Edited by Rastus (Fri 02-Oct-20 14:04:58)

+ 1

To be honest, I am surprised how the ASA allows BT (and any others using a similar name) to get away with it.

In a similar vein, the Welsh Government some years back ran a fibre from Manchester to Bangor (north Wales) This apparently to put businesses on the route onto a high speed service. The two local nodes to me are at Ewloe and also adjacent to the airfield at Airbus in Broughtion. Then instead of a local fibre link, it is via a microwave link to nearby buildings...

Cheers!

In reply to a post by adslmax:

In my view Full Fibre should be 330/500/900 end of! I disagree with Full Fibre for 40/50/80/100 as it will be very easy confused thinking it coming from FTTC or even G.fast.

The terms Full Fibre / FTTP has nothing to do with speed and shouldn't be referred to as one, it's just a name of the technology / medium it uses.

But I agree they "could" add technology tags (ADSL, FTTC, G.fast, FTTP etc) to each of their packages to say what technologies they can provide that over, but no matter how or what they do people will still get confused or complain about it.

Paul

In reply to a post by Rastus:

In reply to a post by adslmax:

... it shouldn't called full fibre. ...

It would have been better if VDSL had never been referred to as 'fibre', that way we wouldn't have millions of people thinking they had a fibre connection, and BT would not need to call FTTP 'full fibre'.

Maybe call ADSL FTTE (Fibre to the Exchange) LOL

Paul

When I had ADSL it was best referred to as Only Works On Sunny Days.

In reply to a post by kommando:

When I had ADSL it was best referred to as Only Works On Sunny Days.

This is true LOL
Ours only worked when it wasn't raining or windy, so the connection was up and down all of the time.

Paul

In reply to a post by adslmax:

First FTTP goes live for Cuckoo Oak showing full fibre FTTP 1000/220 for Cabinet 7 & 9

My parents will getting FTTP soon.

https://ibb.co/fn042g2 for cabinet 9
https://ibb.co/ZgdVHVJ for cabinet 7

I can't seem to find any actually live and note that in that image you used screenshots from Openreach with no address showing rather than screenshots from BT Wholesale checker with partial address.

I also note exactly zero roadworks for fibre splicing, duct unblocking, pole access, etc, planned in Madeley.

A quick look at a few addresses on cabinet 7 on both Wholesale checker and Openreach indicate no availability and no plans to make it available.

Ditto 9.

Can you explain this? Seems strange?

TF7 5HS, TF7 5LG this area will have full fibre soon as Openreach say so. First around cabinet 7 then cabinet 9 area for their first stages. Roadworks isn't there yet because the full fibre haven't start yet. I can't give out too many post codes for Cabinet 7 area for full fibre soon and cabinet 9 post codes. Plus Openreach emailed me two weeks ago that my area expected a full fibre plan soon around 2021 stages 3

Edited by adslmax (Tue 06-Oct-20 12:57:00)

I hate to tell you this but both those postcodes are the same street on the OpenReach checker, Hollybush Road.

It looks like retro new build work and not a rollout.

Odd that codelook seems to think TF7 5HS is a different street.

Edit: codelook has TF7 5HS down as Fairview Court.

TF7 5HS is down to get FTTP. Fairview Court isn't down to get FTTP.

2nd edit: many of codelooks street names for P7 are incorrect, naming half the cabinet postcodes Fairview Court, which is just a very small cul-de-sac.

Edited by j0hn83 (Tue 06-Oct-20 13:23:58)

I frequent Madeley a lot, not seen any Openreach works at all apart from on Halesfield, the big industrial estate served by Cuckoo Oak.

All the FTTP rollout work at the moment has been going on in Lawley and Dawley. Infill work around the new build developments.

It looks like Cuckoo, Hollinswood and Stirchley are going to have to wait for a bit.

Here email from openreach to me

Good morning



Firstly I would like to apologise for not having contacted you yesterday as promised, I was still waiting for further information to enable me to respond to your questions.



I have spoken to the local project manager who covers the Fibre to the Premise rollout and he has confirmed that there are currently plans to deploy fibre to your address at stages 3 around 2021.

I hope that I have answered your questions? I will now close your enquiry, but if there is anything else I can help you with, then please email me. My normal working hours are 7.30am to 5pm Monday to Thursday.

Kind Regards

A****** R**********

Executive Level Team

Openreach

Looks like they're making movements then. Keep an eye on roadworks.org. It came up for Lawley when they were infilling there.

I'd love to know why half of my street is FTTP and the upper part FTTC.

I have no idea. As far as I know two area got FTTP in other side of mine. And one FTTP in Madeley. I know there are some FTTP in Dawley and Lawley and few in Wellington too.

I don't understand why ISPreview full list of full fibre by Openreach didn't say Telford on that list for future plan? Very odd.

Any new development seems to get BT FTTP or Virgin FTTH or both - which has been the case in Lawley and has been since 2014 I believe - some streets they left out and one in particular had really poor FTTC - which has recently been infilled.

There a few new developments in TF2 on FTTP from Hollinswood. Not aware of any infilling in that area though, it's just new builds only.

The others like Stirchley, Cuckoo Oak, Donnington there has been no news on.

Forgive me for not believing a word you say.
You've made up countless OpenReach emails in the past.

As it stands only a single street on PCP7 or PCP9 is down to get FTTP from OpenReach according to their online checker.

It's a new build with copper currently, so that's retro new build work and not a rollout.

Codelook records for the area are somewhat useless.

Edited by j0hn83 (Tue 06-Oct-20 17:39:16)

some codelook are wrong post code in some area

Edited by adslmax (Tue 06-Oct-20 18:03:15)

I just check my post code https://www.openreach.com/fibre-broadband and it say below:

Full Fibre (Fibre to the Premises - FTTP)

Technology that supports speeds up to 1Gbps

We don’t have plans to upgrade your area yet. Tell us you’re interested and we’ll update you when things change.

Gfast

Technology that supports speeds up to 330Mbps

Gfast supercharges the existing network to give speeds that are many times the national average. Your speed will depend on things like how close you are to the cabinet. Your broadband provider will tell you what speed you can expect to receive when you place an order.

Fibre to the Cabinet (FTTC)

Technology that supports speeds up to 80Mbps

Millions of UK homes and businesses can already get great broadband speeds. Your speed will depend on things like how close you are to the cabinet. Your broadband provider will tell you what speed you can expect to receive when you place an order.

Look like Openreach email to me is talking about 2021 planning, not at the moment