What are BT doing? Help understanding roadworks

Hi,

From roadworks:

formation for Operational Teams

Highway Authority:
East Sussex County Council
Location:
OS 35c on CRANBORNE AVENUE
Description:
EASTBOURNE NEVILLE RS V5356 - PON 801290 - To build 11 new joint boxes and lay approx 186m of Duct 54/56 in FW/CW/VERGE
Permit status:
Granted
Works ref:
BC111WBLVMJ7K002
Current status:
Work in progress
Work info last updated:
15/10/2020 13:53
Last updated on one.network:
16/11/2020 19:10

They are doing this in 3 locations within about 50m of my home.

What does this description mean?

Did someone pay for FTTPoD or something else?

Edited by Spinstorm (Mon 16-Nov-20 19:54:50)

11 new joint boxes?

I don’t know what this means however I would assume one house for FTTPoD wouldn’t require 11 of them? Right?

I doubt it's FTTPoD if the survey has come back with 11 new joint boxes. The PON in the job code would suggest it's a fibre build. Looking on the Thinkbroadband maps for your location the build is happening where the FTTC is currently sub-24Mbps. Also checking a postcode on eSussex puts the addresses in "final few", so maybe it's a state aid build.

Edited by jpm (Mon 16-Nov-20 21:10:46)

So you think this is a new green cabinet or the infrastructure for FTTP?

The speeds are super slow up here...

FTTP is much more likely than FTTC these days

Plus if it was just a cabinet, then would not build a PON.

Edited by MrSaffron (Mon 16-Nov-20 23:08:30)

The whole area is getting FTTP installed infrastructure installed.

may be may be not - might be some premises only depending on what programme is funding what the build is - best to check your address with Openreach website whcih can be found here - this should tell you if there is a local build whether you are part of it or not https://www.openreach.com/fibre-broadband

Edit: didn't read who i was replying to

Great news for the OP

Edited by j0hn83 (Tue 17-Nov-20 14:01:09)

In reply to a post by Fastman3:

may be may be not - might be some premises only depending on what programme is funding what the build is

witchunt has access to very detailed rollout plans, much more than any public facing online checker can give.

If he says it's the whole area then it's the whole area.

Is there a time frame on when this will be available?

I've been hoping for years that this would happen.

Last summer I enquired with Cerebus about FTTPoD and was told Openreach were building it out in my area so I couldn't place an order but nothing ever happened. The eSussex broadband site briefly back then said FTTP was coming to the area but just as quickly that vanished.

There is no evidence on any site that this work is even happening.

I understand that you have access so know all - would love some idea of a time frame maybe to actually get it.

Thanks!

And also thank you to everyone else who replied to my question.

In reply to a post by Spinstorm:

Is there a time frame on when this will be available?

I realise this is only one data point, but from the point where Openreach were digging up my road to lay in the fibre ducts into the street (all underground cabling here) to the point it was available to order was around 5 months, and then another 3 months after me actually ordering until installation due to additional duct work required to my premises. Finally got connected a couple of weeks ago.

What I don’t understand is the area they have dug up and are almost finished in is right in the middle of the area. I’m assuming they must have enough channels around the area to get the fibre up but for some reason this particular part is blocked or not suitable.

I’m hoping I can spot an openreach engineer at some point to get an idea from them of timeframe. I’d be dissapointed if it’s 5 months to connect it up.

(Although until yesterday I wasn’t sure if they would ever improve the speed up where I am with the nearest cabinet over 1000m away).

Is this related as well? It mentions power to the joint holes?

Location:
O/S 10
Description:
Connections Small Works: Installation of new Low Voltage electricity cables to ensure safe and reliable power supplies: Excavate LV joint hole - 1ph ser FOOTWAY & C/W.
Permit status:
Granted
Works ref:
KZ50033300340
Current status:
Planned work about to start
Work info last updated:
15/10/2020 14:16
Last updated on one.network:
17/11/2020 17:55
Data source:
UK Power Networks

Maybe its not Openreach, but another operator?

The work I originally posted does say BT on it - which I take to mean Openreach.

I also walked around and asked one of the guys about it. Unfortunately he wasn’t from openreach but was just retarmacing the road however he told me it was fibre and openreach as well.

The power work in the previous post mentioned the joint boxes which is why I asked if it was connected.

I have no idea how long it takes for openreach to get the FTTP ready. I can’t figure out how they even get the fibre up to there although I was also told that the reason for the works was the ducts were blocked so they had to lay new ones by the guy working on the tarmac.

I am hoping I might be able to find an openreach engineer but as I can’t see the road from my home I would think it’s unlikely I’ll notice them.

I imagine I’m going to be spending the next several weeks or months refreshing the fibre checker to see if anything has changed...

The power work won't be related to the PON (fibre) build - it doesn't mention joint boxes, LV JOINT is a low voltage (e.g. 240v) joint, it's just going to be a cable repair or similar.

really !!!!

i know who i am what i do - wonder if whichunt does or you do

i suggested you using the openreach checker which says waht openreach is doing and programme level as that will tell you if it the whole area or what it is - dont assume it is

you might be lucky or you might not be -

I had a look at the openreach site.

The roadworks are down Cranborne avenue and wells close.

On Wells close it says “starting to build ultrafast”

On Cranborne avenue where they have literally dug a channel across the road using the address of the house right by that massive hole it says “no plans for ultrafast” and the same at my address one road up.

Now I think we agree that 11 joint boxes are not for one home - and the guy filling in the holes said they were putting in FTTP.

So unless they are literally putting it in one small cull de sac with 6 houses and no where else I would tend to think that the Openreach site isn’t up to date.

Of course I could be wrong about this but we will see.

Edited by Spinstorm (Wed 18-Nov-20 11:09:36)

whichunt knows what's happening, and that's what John was referring to, witchunt knows far more than any checker will tell you

In reply to a post by Fastman3:

really !!!!

i know who i am what i do - wonder if whichunt does or you do

i suggested you using the openreach checker which says waht openreach is doing and programme level as that will tell you if it the whole area or what it is - dont assume it is

you might be lucky or you might not be -

You replied to an OpenReach engineer, who has already taken his time to check the local rollout.

He replied to the OP that the entire area was getting FTTP.

You then replied to him with maybe, maybe not. Go check the openreach.com site.

Just some of what he has access to....

CSS(routing & records platform), ORION ( FTTP survey tool), Land registry, Wayleaves register, Geo-Hub (network plant locator), Artisan (plant defect register), National Repository (all information for each individual PON being built), LUMS (project recording tool for anything at all fibre related).

But of course, you know better, and he should just check openreach.com instead of the wealth of knowledge available to him.

Aye alright then 😂

In reply to a post by witchunt:

The whole area is getting FTTP installed infrastructure installed.

I emailed eSussex broadband and they have replied and said those works are not related to my post code and it is not in the FTTP rollout plans.

Very unhelpfully they didn't explain what they were exactly doing either - I have emailed them back to ask.

@witchunt as you have access to the information please could you explain what is going on? My post code (one road along) is BN207TW. I would love to know some more details. Thanks!

I feel like the eSussex team are trained to reply only with the least information they can - and in fact I get the impression they checked my post code and saw nothing on the system so replied and said not in the plans rather than checking what those works were...

Edited by Spinstorm (Thu 19-Nov-20 16:02:35)

I don't want to come across negatively but if you have given your local BDUK team your postcode and they don't have your property in scope they will not start explaining what is going on in other streets in your area.

If your area is getting fttp like witchunt says then it may be part of an Openreach funded rollout and not BDUK. Witchunt does not post on this forum in an official capacity so you may be pushing it by asking for more info, I would grasp on to the facts that you have already been told.

Edit: Worth saying that since I have been on this forum I have not known witchunt to be wrong when it comes to things related to Openreach so try to be reassured.

Edited by deleted (Thu 19-Nov-20 16:54:42)

I've not looked any further but details in the original post clearly identify the PON build and scheme as part of the FTTP build.

Lightning Fibre are doing a lot of duct unblocking in Meads area of Eastbourne at the moment and CityFibre have started their build in Hampden Park area.

Openreach will need to get a shove on as there is only so much room in the ducts.

I have to ask the question of why is it so difficult to get an official answer?

How is it that BDUK don’t know what openreach are doing? Why does the openreach site not show it?

I mean for something that requires paperwork to dig up the road surely it should be an easy answer?

If it’s openreach then how will I know? Just keep checking online? For how long? It’s just a mess.

And if it is a small build then I assume that if I then asked for FTTPoD the cost to go one road over should be a lot less than the £18,000 I was quoted a year ago.

But then you ask yourself why would they be doing that work for such a small number of homes?!

I’d just love some clarification of what the plan is!

Edited by Spinstorm (Thu 19-Nov-20 19:56:47)

In reply to a post by Spinstorm:

I have to ask the question of why is it so difficult to get an official answer?

Probably because people then hold them to the answers they give. Plans change - sometimes even after equipment has been installed, based on funding and unexpected problems.

In reply to a post by Spinstorm:

And if it is a small build then I assume that if I then asked for FTTPoD the cost to go one road over should be a lot less than the £18,000 I was quoted a year ago.

Maybe, maybe not. The FTTP architecture doesn't daisy-chain AFAIK, so they likely still have to pull a fibre cable all the way back to the fibre aggregation node.

In reply to a post by witchunt:

the original post clearly identify the PON build and scheme as part of the FTTP build.

Yeah I noticed that, 11 new JB and 186m of duct seems a strange mix. The road in question already seems to be fed UG and I did spot some existing JF2's when I done a google of the avenue in question.

In reply to a post by dect:

In reply to a post by witchunt:

the original post clearly identify the PON build and scheme as part of the FTTP build.

Yeah I noticed that, 11 new JB and 186m of duct seems a strange mix. The road in question already seems to be fed UG and I did spot some existing JF2's when I done a google of the avenue in question.

I know you were replying to witchunt but can you explain what you mean here?

I don’t know what the JB are for. I don’t know how much space 11 of them has. And no idea what JF2 are? Why is this a strange mix? And how do these works lead to evidence of an FTTP build?

Edited by Spinstorm (Fri 20-Nov-20 00:04:07)

Joint boxes, usually spaced well apart on Openreach network - 11 in 186 metre distance sounds high.

One possibility is that the existing footway boxes are being rebuilt.

A couple of weeks after my FTTPoD went live, contractors came around (unannounced) and rebuilt my footway box. They did this without affecting any service, which was quite impressive.

In reply to a post by candlerb:

One possibility is that the existing footway boxes are being rebuilt.

You may be right especially if they are adding more duct capacity along the avenue for Openreach fttp and as Partial says another altnet is working in the surrounding area and may want to use PIA to get their fibre infrastructure in at some point.

In reply to a post by candlerb:

A couple of weeks after my FTTPoD went live, contractors came around (unannounced) and rebuilt my footway box. They did this without affecting any service, which was quite impressive.

Did they rebuild using brick or the quicker modular Stakka boxes type as I know they can be cut and fitted around existing cables.

What MrSaffron said was also my initial thinking,

You asked what a JF2 was, they are the small BT Joint Boxes you sometimes see along the pavement.

Use google to search for 'identifying_our_equipment_guide.pdf' as its a very helpful document on the Openreach website.

In reply to a post by dect:

Did they rebuild using brick or the quicker modular Stakka boxes type as I know they can be cut and fitted around existing cables.

Unfortunately I didn't take a photo or get to talk to the contractors. I believe they left a plywood frame in overnight, although I wouldn't have thought they were casting concrete.

Yep, 4 to be rebuilt and 7 new boxes.

I asked Lightning Fibre and they said they are not in the area and won’t be until end of 2021.

I suppose I just have to keep an eye open for Openreach vans and try the wholesale checker unless anyone else has another idea?

To be clear the guys filling in the road said it was fibre and that the area was blocked so they couldn’t put it through until they relayed the duct. I don’t know if that makes any difference (and I am not sure if I said that originally)

In reply to a post by Spinstorm:

I suppose I just have to keep an eye open for Openreach vans and try the wholesale checker unless anyone else has another idea?

Yep: one.network, OR checker, and BT wholesale checker. The latter is the one which will tell you when the service is ready to order.

In reply to a post by Spinstorm:

To be clear the guys filling in the road said it was fibre and that the area was blocked so they couldn’t put it through until they relayed the duct. I don’t know if that makes any difference (and I am not sure if I said that originally)

If a trench has to be dug for a new duct, then that could be expensive. The cost obviously depends on the length required, but if it's large it could put your area to the bottom of the pile for commercial install.

If a road closure is required for the dig, that would normally require a 3 month notice period - but it should show as planned on one.network.

In reply to a post by candlerb:

In reply to a post by Spinstorm:

I suppose I just have to keep an eye open for Openreach vans and try the wholesale checker unless anyone else has another idea?

Yep: one.network, OR checker, and BT wholesale checker. The latter is the one which will tell you when the service is ready to order.

In reply to a post by Spinstorm:

To be clear the guys filling in the road said it was fibre and that the area was blocked so they couldn’t put it through until they relayed the duct. I don’t know if that makes any difference (and I am not sure if I said that originally)

If a trench has to be dug for a new duct, then that could be expensive. The cost obviously depends on the length required, but if it's large it could put your area to the bottom of the pile for commercial install.

If a road closure is required for the dig, that would normally require a 3 month notice period - but it should show as planned on one.network.

To clarify what I meant was the work they have finished was the work they did.

The laying new ducting and the joint boxes which is now complete.

OK - well if it's done, it's now just a wait and see. Pulling the cables through the ducts probably won't show on one.network, unless it involves traffic control.

eSussex replied to me and said it was only infrastructure upgrade in that postal code which is that particular road.

I find it very hard to believe that an Openreach programme would only support 8 homes in that one road.

I take onboard what +witchunt has said and hope he is correct but then why do they have different information? It’s so unprofessional that they don’t know what is going on.

Whats the current broadband speed at your property?

Between 11-14 Mbps depending on the noise on the line.

It’s about 1000m to the nearest cabinet from my post code BN207TW. And the road with the works is the next road and postal code BN207TX.

In reply to a post by Spinstorm:

Between 11-14 Mbps depending on the noise on the line.

It’s about 1000m to the nearest cabinet from my post code BN207TW. And the road with the works is the next road and postal code BN207TX.

I have just realised from looking at candlerb FTTPoD spreadsheet that your property was originally part of BDUK PH3.1 rollout back last year but due to highways issues was then delayed indefinitely.

If eSussex are now saying they are not covering your property then you have to hope its a commercial rollout from Openreach.

In reply to a post by Spinstorm:

eSussex replied to me and said it was only infrastructure upgrade in that postal code which is that particular road.

It's not impossible that they found some disintegrating footway boxes in one particular road and decided to repair them (especially if they were in a dangerous state).

But if Witchunt says there is FTTP going to the whole area, then that's likely to happen. Just have to be patient I'm afraid...

I am not impressed.

Openreach and the council are saying no FTTP is planned for my area.

The BDUK for Sussex site shows the road where the openreach work was being done as coming soon in 2021. My road which has the back to it says no plans.

Even the road that the works WENT PAST are not showing as on the FTTP list.

I have put my name down for Starlink as I think that is my best chance in getting decent service even though I am in a town with some FTTP.

Diagram showing area!

I guess it's still possible that someone in that close ordered FTTPoD. It may become clearer when you find out exactly which properties have been activated: whether it's the whole close, or just a few properties around one footway box.

But I'd still maintain hope from what Witchunt said. There's lots of miscommunication within large organisations.

In reply to a post by Spinstorm:

I have put my name down for Starlink as I think that is my best chance in getting decent service even though I am in a town with some FTTP.

Diagram showing area!

Looks like you should do a deal with the person whose house backs onto yours, and run a cable or a wireless link there - offer them half the cost of Starlink

Or: wait until FTTP is live in the adjacent close, maybe another couple of months for records to be updated, then try another FTTPoD desktop quote.

In reply to a post by Spinstorm:

I am not impressed.

Openreach and the council are saying no FTTP is planned for my area.

I really don't know what to say, I can remember you previously stating (and you have stated it again now) that you're not in plan for a BDUK rollout and you have had it also confirmed you're not in plan for a commercial rollout by Openreach.

There are sadly millions of properties in the same boat as you, I could provide you with a cul-de-sac not to far from me where half have FTTP (funded by BDUK) and half don't and the half that missed out were getting the same poor speed as the half that got upgraded, sadly nobody ever said these rollouts are done fairly.

I think below is good advise.

In reply to a post by candlerb:

wait until FTTP is live in the adjacent close, maybe another couple of months for records to be updated, then try another FTTPoD desktop quote.

As others have said this looks very much like someone in that close ordered FTTP on Demand, this automatically gives all houses on the same distribution point FTTP, and that quite likely is all those houses in that close and no one else. It is very similar to my street where 5 houses at the end all got FTTP including me, but there are houses immediately next door to ones that got FTTP as part of my FTTP on Demand order, that don't have FTTP. Basically it has to stop somewhere. My fibre runs past many more houses on its way to me and I'm sure some people thought it was coming to them as well when Openreach were here pulling fibre through but are still waiting!

Given the work done for new ducting up to that close should hopefully mean if you were to get a quote for FTTP on Demand it would be fairly reasonable, although given they had to do a lot of work either because of blocked ducts or direct in ground cable to get to that close may well mean they still have more to do in order to reach your property, putting the price up.

It isn't FTTPoD.

An answer was given right at the start of this thread.

In reply to a post by witchunt:

The whole area is getting FTTP installed infrastructure installed.

Tagged to last post

The OP's postcode BN207TW (Rochester Close) is not in scope for FTTP although a neighbouring postcode BN207TX (Wells Close) that backs onto the OP property is in scope for FTTP and this is confirmed by the Openreach website.

In reply to a post by dect:

Tagged to last post

The OP's postcode BN207TW (Rochester Close) is not in scope for FTTP although a neighbouring postcode BN207TX (Wells Close) that backs onto the OP property is in scope for FTTP and this is confirmed by the Openreach website.

The OpenReach site doesn't show BN207TX Wells Close as having FTTP coming.

The only site that shows anything is the esussex site.

I trust the tools available to witchunt (I listed some of these tools above) more than I trust a BDUK site.

In reply to a post by j0hn83:

In reply to a post by dect:

Tagged to last post

The OP's postcode BN207TW (Rochester Close) is not in scope for FTTP although a neighbouring postcode BN207TX (Wells Close) that backs onto the OP property is in scope for FTTP and this is confirmed by the Openreach website.

The OpenReach site doesn't show BN207TX Wells Close as having FTTP coming.

The only site that shows anything is the esussex site.

I trust the tools available to witchunt (I listed some of these tools above) more than I trust a BDUK site.

I respect what you say but if you query the Openreach fibre checker (BN207TX) you get the following page returned

06-fttp--in-scope----g-fast--not-in-scope----fttc--available-.lightbox.html

Edited by deleted (Tue 16-Feb-21 17:30:13)

You're obviously getting different results to me.

If I check the OpenReach fibre checker it only shows FTTC available and asks for contact details to get updates.
It says nothing about FTTP coming when I check.

In reply to a post by j0hn83:

You're obviously getting different results to me.

If I check the OpenReach fibre checker it only shows FTTC available and asks for contact details to get updates.
It says nothing about FTTP coming when I check.

If I query the OP's postcode I get

05-fttp--not-in-scope----g-fast--not-in-scope----fttc--available.lightbox.html

In reply to a post by dect:

In reply to a post by j0hn83:

You're obviously getting different results to me.

If I check the OpenReach fibre checker it only shows FTTC available and asks for contact details to get updates.
It says nothing about FTTP coming when I check.

If I query the OP's postcode I get

05-fttp--not-in-scope----g-fast--not-in-scope----fttc--available.lightbox.html

Very strange that BN20 7TX shows FTTP coming for you yet shows no plans for myself and the OP.

I wonder if someone else could run a check on BN20 7TX on the openreach.com fibre checker and see what they get.

I tried 1, 4 and 7 Wells Close and got 06-fttp--in-scope----g-fast--not-in-scope----fttc--available-.lightbox.html for each of them

Note: this is looking in the browser's developer console. The visible web page just shows "Great news. Superfast Fibre is available at your address" without any hint that FTTP is on the way.

In reply to a post by candlerb:

Note: this is looking in the browser's developer console.

Well that explains the different results.

Very nice of you to explain why the results were different. No idea why that couldn't have been said a couple posts ago.

In reply to a post by candlerb:

I tried 1, 4 and 7 Wells Close and got 06-fttp--in-scope----g-fast--not-in-scope----fttc--available-.lightbox.html for each of them

Note: this is looking in the browser's developer console. The visible web page just shows "Great news. Superfast Fibre is available at your address" without any hint that FTTP is on the way.

Thanks

In reply to a post by j0hn83:

In reply to a post by candlerb:

Note: this is looking in the browser's developer console.

Well that explains the different results.

Very nice of you to explain why the results were different. No idea why that couldn't have been said a couple posts ago.

I thought you knew everything

OP's road is not in scope, but quite a few along Cranborne Ave are: I tested 37 (BN20 7TS), 32 (BN20 7TT), 26 (BN20 7TS), 14 (BN20 7TS). Perhaps that's what Witchunt meant by "the whole area"

In reply to a post by candlerb:

OP's road is not in scope, but quite a few along Cranborne Ave are: I tested 37 (BN20 7TS), 32 (BN20 7TT), 26 (BN20 7TS), 14 (BN20 7TS). Perhaps that's what Witchunt meant by "the whole area"

I didn't think to check them certainly seems a lot more are getting it than just Wells Close which is always good to see.

Post deleted by djb61

Post deleted by djb61

Agree with this. We need a little bit of trust sometimes rather than just relying on Openreach rollout checkers etc.

Those checkers can be wrong or Openreach may choose not to share plans publically for some areas. I know of a whole town round here that is at a very advanced stage of FTTP build. 2/3 of pole mounted DPs are completed. But on the Openreach checker there’s nothing, no plans for that area!

Another town round here got to 50% FTTP build complete, no sign of it on the Openreach rollout checker, then suddenly it was announced as part of a “rural rollout”, few weeks later much of it went live for orders.

Edited by _Icaras_ (Wed 17-Feb-21 10:31:55)

I have a very similar question regarding Roadworks planned for tomorrow as reference BC008WD3MT71P on RoadWorks.org

Is there a simple way to lookup more info on these?

At least Openreach in that region stuck a description in! Round here they dont bother

In reply to a post by Salem874:

I have a very similar question regarding Roadworks planned for tomorrow as reference BC008WD3MT71P on RoadWorks.org

Is there a simple way to lookup more info on these?

The DfT initiated changes on the grounds of data protection some time back, so to comply one.network had to remove the properly meaningful descriptions from their portal tools for unregistered users. To be a registered user, you must be an affiliated member of a roadworks registered organisation. Joe Public can no longer see the details associated with these permits on one.network.

An aggregation tool like Better Internet Dashboard which looks at various sources of data to paints a more useful picture of what is happening in an area...

From which we can see that Openreach need traffic managements (two-way signals) in place so that they can install a new pole tomorrow.

Edited by Pheasant (Thu 21-Apr-22 20:18:55)

Descriptors available here:
https://mast-works.davwheat.dev/