Does BT or Sky provide fibre via Virgin Media?

I'm having a debate with someone on Facebook who seems to be under the impression Cable & Wireless built Virgin Media's network in the 90's and all customers of BT Fibre and Sky Fibre are actually getting a connection that is subrented from VM!

I just wanted clarity from some people on here that I am not from another planet or something as I could have sworn that both BT and Sky Fibre services are provided via the Openreach network?

BT certainly do not use VM . Dont think Sky does either though I think they may have arrangements with a few altnets. In fact I dont believe Virgin has any wholesale arrangement on their cable network.
Vrigin cable came about through the merger of Telewest and NTL, which were themselves amalgamation of many other networks such as Nynex and Videotron
Ironically Virgin have used Openreach infrastructure to build parts of their FTTP network using PIA.

Edited by witchunt (Tue 09-Mar-21 18:33:02)

In reply to a post by RebootTheRouter:

I'm having a debate with someone on Facebook who seems to be under the impression Cable & Wireless built Virgin Media's network in the 90's

There were over 30 separate companies that built the various copper coax networks for cable TV in the 1990s, this was Thatcher's idea of competition for BT. Of course at the same time mobile took off fast. None of these small companies could survive in their original design, especially as digital satellite and digital terrestrial TV appeared, and cable was analogue.

history lesson

CableTel bought the TV broadcast business and renamed itself NTL after having built cable networks franchises in Surrey & Hampshire.
NTL bought C&W Consumer Co, and hence now own cable network in the south.
NTL bought other companies.

Telewest (Blueyonder ISP) bought/merged with other companies, including Eurobell and Nynex.

Eventually NTL and Telewest merged to become NTL:Telewest PLC, and the merged entity then went and purchased Virgin Mobile from Branson. This gave them the rights to the Virgin brand, and they renamed themselves -> Virgin Media.

In reply to a post by RebootTheRouter:

and all customers of BT Fibre and Sky Fibre are actually getting a connection that is subrented from VM!

That is rubbish.

In reply to a post by RebootTheRouter:

I just wanted clarity from some people on here that I am not from another planet or something as I could have sworn that both BT and Sky Fibre services are provided via the Openreach network?

Openreach connect the home to the network. They are the "last mile", and in old days that was the copper wires from your home to the exchange.

At the exchange the connection can plug into equipment from BT plc, Sky plc, or TalkTalk plc, or some smaller operators.

From what I can remember of it, a lot of the original cable companies weren't small companies at all but very deep pocketed American firms. Much like the fibre altcos today.

In reply to a post by partial:

From what I can remember of it, a lot of the original cable companies weren't small companies at all but very deep pocketed American firms. Much like the fibre altcos today.

Yes, Nynex, and Videotron for example were European/UK divisions of those US or Canadian firms. I'm not sure they were "deep pocketed".

Most coax build was in the range 1990 to 1994, and back in those days the costs of digging the street and installing ducting, some fibre, but mostly copper coax cables was immense. It took weeks to do a single street. This led to both NTL and Telewest being in such massive debt to the banks that they could hardly trade to gain business.

The original firms could not cope with this huge construction debt, and eventually the mergers occurred (and were permitted by the Govt) otherwise they would have shut down. One national company finally emerged in VM which was able to agree terms with the investment banks that this had to be a 1000 year debt or similar.

That restructuring allowed VM to trade, essentially profitably, with the ability to invest in newer and updated services, such as Cable Modems, and Digital TV.

A digestible (sort of) recap of networking history in the UK:

https://youtu.be/8I3XxniJdh8

In the Hastings area, Bell CableMedia had the franchise for cable but never got further than looking into using the old Rediffusion ducting that covers a lot of the area before being absorbed into Virgin.

Never did get any cable in the area.

In reply to a post by simon194:

Never did get any cable in the area.

Same in Horsham, West Sussex, the franchise was assigned but nothing was built.

In reply to a post by partial:

From what I can remember of it, a lot of the original cable companies weren't small companies at all but very deep pocketed American firms. Much like the fibre altcos today.

I wonder if those US companies thought they where operating under US rules, i.e. at the time if there was cable in the area satellite companies where not allowed to sell packages!

Believe it was similar in Chichester although I think there it was the district council that refused permission for them to dig up pavements.