Openreach FTTP Missed Appointment

Posting out of frustration more than anything else and wondering how long this saga is going to go on...


-I originally ordered FTTP with BT (without a landline) on the 11th December 2020 with an install date of 25th January 2021.

-On the 18th Jan 2021 I rang in and BT said the order had been cancelled by their systems due to a problem on the "backend" and that they couldn't fix it after trying for 2 weeks, but regardless Covid-19 restrictions meant that it wouldn't be going ahead anyway.

-I got a call from a manager at BT on the same day and the outcome was that I would not be joining BT as a customer and everything was cancelled down (I didn't trust that they could actually solve the issue and had lost confidence).

-I successfully signed up with Zen the same day as the BT order was cancelled and was given an installation date for today (29th March - PM slot).

-At 4.30 PM today no Openreach engineer had arrived so I phoned Zen.

-Zen said that the job was live but hadn't been allocated to an engineer but said they can't chase until tomorrow as the engineer might turn up before 6pm and work late.


It's now 6 PM and no engineer has turned up and I've had no contact from Openreach at all. I've just wasted a day of holiday waiting for them to turn up and I just think it's so rude not to bother letting people know. How hard can it be to get FTTP installed and why are Openreach so utterly incompetent?

What happens now? Presumably Zen has to chase them tomorrow to find out what happened but any idea how long it will be before I get another engineer appointment?

Edited by ashlez (Mon 29-Mar-21 18:08:14)

Not in any way to excuse the no show - a pet hate of mine too - but they are working through a backlog dues to the restrictions. A courtesy call or text however wouldn't have gone astray!

To lend some perspective; here it took roughly about the same time to get from initial order to actual order placed (early July to late September) - with survey in between. With a nice big bill to pay (all up front). Then a further wait of near enough 10 months for the service to be provided. That was in non-pandemic, so called 'good' times.

I'm sure you'll get connected soon. Good luck.

I have to agree that Openreach's communication is atrocious.

I think every customer would be accommodating, even at the last minute if told that the installer hadn't turned up to work due to having to isolate/a family emergency or something, but the lack of communication is galling.

On the scale that Openreach work, there will be an employee no-show rate that is predictable enough that it can be planned for, and any variance dealt with by means of occasional overtime. Okay, it was different in the early stages of coronavirus, but at the moment the numbers will be steady.

The insistence that nothing can be done before 6pm as they might turn up at 1759 and work late is ridiculous. I've had that one several times and took to calling back at 1755 so that I got in the call centre queue before it shut at 6, but ended up speaking to someone after 6pm so they couldn't use the 'they're on their way' excuse. Not sure it speeded anything up though...

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

Not in any way to excuse the no show - a pet hate of mine too - but they are working through a backlog dues to the restrictions. A courtesy call or text however wouldn't have gone astray!

I understand they're working through a backlog but that was partly an issue of their own making wasn't it? They went further with restrictions than required by the government and further than other providers. We all have our opinion on this but I don't have much sympathy for Openreach in this respect as they could have allowed a little bit more flexibility where circumstances were allowing.

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

To lend some perspective; here it took roughly about the same time to get from initial order to actual order placed (early July to late September) - with survey in between. With a nice big bill to pay (all up front). Then a further wait of near enough 10 months for the service to be provided. That was in non-pandemic, so called 'good' times.

Was yours FTTPoD?

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

I'm sure you'll get connected soon. Good luck.

Thank you. Let's hope so

Sorry to hear of the O/Ps appalling shoddy treatment by Openreach?

They are a law unto themselves because they simply have the monopoly of the telecommunications infrastructure. It would be more than fair to say they don't know their [censored] from their elbow.

I have had broadband speed issues and from Monday to Thursday a new guy would turn up to fix the fault on some occasions more than one van and they fixed jack [censored]. Then on the Friday yup the 5th day another OR guy turns up saying he will fix the fault. Fair play to this dude he wasn't gone long and the fault was fixed. He told me he just moved my line at the cabinet to another spare pair, simplez.

Have no idea why the other OR guys couldn't do that on the 1st day but hey they are charging for their service so like to drag the job out for as much cash as possible.

You have my total sympathy. I'd bill them for the waste of a days pay £250.

In reply to a post by ashlez:

I understand they're working through a backlog but that was partly an issue of their own making wasn't it? They went further with restrictions than required by the government and further than other providers. We all have our opinion on this but I don't have much sympathy for Openreach in this respect as they could have allowed a little bit more flexibility where circumstances were allowing.

I think they (not perhaps unreasonably) took a more conservative approach with household and resi based services. For a start they are coming into peoples homes and the potential risks are far higher in frequency, diversity and range of exposure scenarios for both customer and service provider than for many other businesses. You only have to look at these boards to see the massive variation in folks attitudes to whether they are (or were) prepared to take that risk in having them come in. So I don't think that's wholly unreasonable at all.

I know for a fact they took a far more 'libertarian' approach to business services as I had a business circuit installed in another property over February and the crews worked days, nights and whatever it took. They were actually incredibly diligent and good.

Getting stood up and waiting unnecessarily sucks, and isn't acceptable but by the same token they can a do redeem themselves.

In reply to a post by ashlez:

Was yours FTTPoD?

Yes that order was oD. Perhaps should be renamed the great exercise in restraint and patience...😂

Hopefully your connection gets sorted soon.

I think they (not perhaps unreasonably) took a more conservative approach with household and resi based services. For a start they are coming into peoples homes and the potential risks are far higher in frequency, diversity and range of exposure scenarios for both customer and service provider than for many other businesses. You only have to look at these boards to see the massive variation in folks attitudes to whether they are (or were) prepared to take that risk in having them come in. So I don't think that's wholly unreasonable at all.

Well said Pheasant.

It could be that they were an engineer short that day. Perhaps they were self-isolating due to working in a house where there was a positive Covid test later?

Or it could be that a job took longer than expected. We know from this list how sometimes people make special requests for how they want their fibre routed, and engineers do try to be accommodating. Or maybe there was an unexpected problem and they needed to send out for some special bit of equipment.

Either way, your job was dropped not because they couldn't be bothered, but because they were helping someone else. It's frustrating though.

As for what happens now: contact Zen to get your new appointment sorted out.

I always choose an AM slot when available, on the assumption that the earlier in the day I'm scheduled, the less likely it is that an earlier job will cause an unexpected delay.

Have you had any activity from Openreach as they quite often do the feed from the street especially with underground feeds to house beforehand and on installation day they do the house work. Might be different for a pole feed though.

when my install was done (pre covid) the engineer needed another engineer to be present as there has to be two present if pole climbing is involved which there was as i have a cbt at the top of the pole in the garden. he sat waiting in his van for 3+ hours then abandoned the job as no other person was available. so delays do happen and can compound jobs. my engineer(s) had to come back another day to finish the job

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

I think they (not perhaps unreasonably) took a more conservative approach with household and resi based services. For a start they are coming into peoples homes and the potential risks are far higher in frequency, diversity and range of exposure scenarios for both customer and service provider than for many other businesses. You only have to look at these boards to see the massive variation in folks attitudes to whether they are (or were) prepared to take that risk in having them come in. So I don't think that's wholly unreasonable at all.

I agree and I don't think that was unreasonable. However, what I did find unreasonable was their refusal to take account of individual circumstances and their inconsistent approach. For example - they just said that anyone with an existing service over 30 Mbps would have in-flight orders delayed. In our case the FTTP connection was an additional connection solely for home working (as required by policy due to sensitive nature of job role). They absolutely point blank refused to budge and allow the install to go ahead. And then to add insult to injury - new neighbours moved in on our street and they came along and installed FTTP when there was a perfectly good working copper phone line in that house capable of running well above 30 Mbps!

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

Yes that order was oD. Perhaps should be renamed the great exercise in restraint and patience...

Or maybe renamed the great exercise in being robbed of colossal amounts of money? haha

In reply to a post by candlerb:

It could be that they were an engineer short that day. Perhaps they were self-isolating due to working in a house where there was a positive Covid test later?

Or it could be that a job took longer than expected. We know from this list how sometimes people make special requests for how they want their fibre routed, and engineers do try to be accommodating. Or maybe there was an unexpected problem and they needed to send out for some special bit of equipment.

Either way, your job was dropped not because they couldn't be bothered, but because they were helping someone else. It's frustrating though.

As for what happens now: contact Zen to get your new appointment sorted out.

I always choose an AM slot when available, on the assumption that the earlier in the day I'm scheduled, the less likely it is that an earlier job will cause an unexpected delay.

Good advice on the AM slot.

When it comes to reasons why a particular customer should be a priority, you will find everyone has individual exceptional circumstances.

Not sure if going for a morning appointment will lead to less likely missed appointment. An am appointment done in the afternoon is still a missed appointment and could lead to another missed pm appointment making 2 missed appointments out of 1. Maybe better to just drop one.

I would imagine appointing work of an unknown duration is something that has perplexed the best minds in the UK and India for many years. Or more likely the best computers in India.

Missed appointments lead to automatic compo to the provider so I would imagine they are something that Openreach are keen to minimise.

Edited by deleted (Tue 30-Mar-21 10:00:51)

In reply to a post by Rolandrat:

Have you had any activity from Openreach as they quite often do the feed from the street especially with underground feeds to house beforehand and on installation day they do the house work. Might be different for a pole feed though.

No activity has taken place so far. Our CBT is on top of a pole and our house is then fed via a duct (56) off the base of the pole.

In reply to a post by partial:

When it comes to reasons why a particular customer should be a priority, you will find everyone has individual exceptional circumstances.

I agree and that's why they should have allowed exceptions to their blanket stance in my opinion. These things are rarely black and white and they should have at least allowed deviation from their stance where an explanation of individual circumstances was able to justify the need for the order to continue.

The vast majority I'm sure were happy with having their order delayed but inevitably there have been people with individual circumstances that have been negatively affected by the blanket stance.

You must be meeting a different vast majority to me then.

The vast majority I meet have some reason why they should be first to repair, install or roll out to.

In reply to a post by partial:

You must be meeting a different vast majority to me then.

The vast majority I meet have some reason why they should be first to repair, install or roll out to.

Where are you meeting your vast majority? If it's on here then that's probably the issue - bit of an echo chamber!

I suspect the wider public at large were very sympathetic and agreed with the delays, and rightly so given the awful situation we were in. However it still doesn't change the fact that I believe exceptions should have been allowed where they were justified.

In reply to a post by threelegs:

when my install was done (pre covid) the engineer needed another engineer to be present as there has to be two present if pole climbing is involved which there was as i have a cbt at the top of the pole in the garden. he sat waiting in his van for 3+ hours then abandoned the job as no other person was available. so delays do happen and can compound jobs. my engineer(s) had to come back another day to finish the job

Our install involves a pole climb so yes they will need two engineers and that I understand - it's just the lack of communication and missing the appointment that bothers me.

EDIT: Zarjaz has confirmed that only one engineer is required so that's good news.

Edited by ashlez (Tue 30-Mar-21 13:04:35)

Exceptions were allowed, for instance if the customer had no service at all, or if their existing slow service meant they were unable to carry out a key role ....

A pole climb does not automatically mean two engineers required.

A joint user pole, or a road crossing, yes.

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

A pole climb does not automatically mean two engineers required.

A joint user pole, or a road crossing, yes.

I was just about to ask you if all pole climbs needed 2 engineers.

But how many does it take to change a lightbulb?

Claim it's a welfare case. Elderly, disabled, carer, home worker for key organisation, just use your imagination but has to have ring of authenticity to it.

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

Exceptions were allowed, for instance if the customer had no service at all, or if their existing slow service meant they were unable to carry out a key role ....

That's not individual exceptions justified on an individual basis. The exceptions you refer to were part of the blanket ruleset that Openreach applied to decide whether to delay a provision.

I guess you work for OR and agree with the stance they took and that's fine - I understand, but from a consumer side when there has been a genuine need for an exception outside of the Openreach stance, this whole process has been pretty frustrating - even more so when they then don't hit the date that they agreed to!

In reply to a post by rogan8:

Claim it's a welfare case. Elderly, disabled, carer, home worker for key organisation, just use your imagination but has to have ring of authenticity to it.

That's not me as that would be disingenuous, hence I just accepted the delay at the time regardless of the big inconvenience to us.

In our case it's due to the sensitive nature of a job role - hence the FTTP was ordered as an additional connection alongside the existing FTTC to facilitate home working with separate connections (required by company policy). Not having the additional connection resulted in no home working - hence my comments about the Openreach blanket stance not taking account of individual circumstances. I even asked about having an additional FTTC connection instead and they still said no.

Anyway - that's all irrelevant now as the restrictions have been relaxed and just need them to come and install it!

In reply to a post by ashlez:

In our case the FTTP connection was an additional connection solely for home working (as required by policy due to sensitive nature of job role).

How is that even a thing? Is the line specially connected direct to a non-internet network at the ISP end?

If the avoidance of any kind of shared infrastructure is a requirement, it's hard to see how anything short of a direct leased line is acceptable, and even then... Sounds likely to me to be a policy crafted by someone who should know better.

If it had been ordered as a business connection it may have been delivered as no existing business connection exists.

As you already had a res connection and most homeworking just requires a VPN for security there was no exception for you. Security wise there is little difference having a 2nd connection as the security risk is all with the people in the house with access to the router. ( I assume that you would have the wifi off on the router)

If it was required for an 'official' high security connection your security controller should have ordered it through the correct channels and it would not have been with a public ISP. that could access the packets but a vendor signed up to govn security standards.

Or in the case of mine THREE Kellys staff!

Have you heard anything today about when they will be coming to do the install?

In reply to a post by jimbof:

In reply to a post by ashlez:

In our case the FTTP connection was an additional connection solely for home working (as required by policy due to sensitive nature of job role).

How is that even a thing? Is the line specially connected direct to a non-internet network at the ISP end?

If the avoidance of any kind of shared infrastructure is a requirement, it's hard to see how anything short of a direct leased line is acceptable, and even then... Sounds likely to me to be a policy crafted by someone who should know better.

Home worker setup includes a Cisco router configured with a permanent site-to-site VPN. No WiFi. Locked down to our individual laptop only. They used to provide the line themselves for home workers - now we have to provide it.

It's ridiculous - but I don't make the rules.

Edited by ashlez (Tue 30-Mar-21 17:51:02)

In reply to a post by dect:

Have you heard anything today about when they will be coming to do the install?

Yep - now 7th April.

In reply to a post by ashlez:

Home worker setup includes a Cisco router configured with a permanent site-to-site VPN. No WiFi. Locked down to our individual laptop only. They used to provide the line themselves for home workers - now we have to provide it.

It's ridiculous - but I don't make the rules.

As you say it's a nonsense - either the VPN works or it doesn't. So while you don't have a dedicated line for it, are you prevented from working?

In reply to a post by jimbof:

In reply to a post by ashlez:

Home worker setup includes a Cisco router configured with a permanent site-to-site VPN. No WiFi. Locked down to our individual laptop only. They used to provide the line themselves for home workers - now we have to provide it.

It's ridiculous - but I don't make the rules.

As you say it's a nonsense - either the VPN works or it doesn't. So while you don't have a dedicated line for it, are you prevented from working?

Still working - just office based instead.

All of what you’ve suggested IS done already though. They have a few job control centres around the country that monitor the jobs going out and if there’s any that may fail their time slot they pull in engineers from other areas, plead with people to do evening overtime etc. They try very hard and to be fair if you look at the stats for missed appointments they’re doing pretty well.

So why isn't it a business line if it is only for business use - a line solely for business use should not be on a residential tariff. Also, can't you connect the Cisco router to a spare port on your residential broadband router - then all of the business access can go via the Cisco VPN and all personal access goes out to the Internet as normal. I have a feeling your company is over spec'ing the solution and probably not because of security reasons (more likely because it makes the support easier for them but they blame it on security because that is easier to get staff to buy).