So Why Cannot Kcom Business Connect Us Up To FTTP.

I am with Kcom Business on WBC ADSL2, but now FTTP is now 'Lit up' Tested, Ready to order in my location Kcom say they can Not connect me, as to why I am finding that hard to find out from them.

I have emailed there CEO, Got a complaint in and still keep saying we can not connect you.


We also had FTTC go live in 2014 in our area Derbyshire.

I was told by the BT Openreach chaps who have just done the area's FTTP install that the Headend OLT is the same exchange (12 miles away) for the FTTC cab and the new FTTP that's just been put in.


Now if I can order FTTC on my kcom account that must mean Kcom could in theory get it all configured, ported, to give and me a FTTC connection .

So Why Can Kcom NOT Connect me up using the New FTTP Fibre connection as It goes to the same exchange and could be the same piece of kit in the exchange a OLT, Optical Line Terminator and configure the connection and give my a future proofed connection.


I have contacted other business ISP's and the all say they can give me a connection !.


This is not a 'Data Base' problem !.

I have valid reasons to keep with Kcom.


Anyone come across this before ?

Ideas for kicking it to action to get a FTTP connection. ?

Would getting a FTTP with another isp help to get things going ?, This would mean having my kcom ADSL2 and FTTP with ''another'' for a short time, then porting over the FTTP to kcom .

Edited by APTMAN (Tue 04-May-21 16:16:10)

Your post is very confusing. On the one hand you talk about Kcom, on the other you talk about BT Openreach. Which fibre network has been 'lit up' at your location? And actually, you haven't said anything about your location: are you in the Kingston-upon-Hull area, or somewhere else?

I have no idea whether Kcom sell services UK-wide over the BT/Openreach network. However, even if they do, they don't necessarily have interconnects at every headend exchange. This means they might only sell BT/OR FTTP in certain locations. If Kcom say they can't serve you, then they can't serve you.

If this is the BT/OR FTTP network we're talking about, then as you're discovered, there are literally dozens of ISPs who can sell you service. Pick one.

Note: almost certainly Kcom cannot take over an existing FTTP service in your location, if they can't do a new-provide FTTP service at that location.

Hi, I have put some edits in to try to make it clearer

I have WBC ADSL2 with Kcom, BT Openreach have done the FTTP install around this area with contractors help to pull the fibre in..

Kcom Business do sell to other area's other than Hull, via BT Wholesale.

I have no wish to move to another permanently to any other isp.

It's confusing for me as well as on one hand Kcom know FTTP is available for me as it's on my portal, But then they keep saying they can not connect me.

Could simply be the case they haven't got the GEA headend link for FTTP yet.

Yes that did cross my mind.

This means Kcom can't provide you with FTTP service in your location. They really can't. There's no path for the bits to travel from Openreach's OLT to Kcom's backhaul network.

Either stick with ADSL from Kcom, or take FTTP from a different ISP, and smile.

Yes I know But they could order a Cablelink.
Re 'Either stick with ADSL from Kcom, or take FTTP from a different ISP, and smile.'
I do not give up that easy even if I have to go to 'Offcom' .

In reply to a post by APTMAN:

Yes I know But they could order a Cablelink.
Re 'Either stick with ADSL from Kcom, or take FTTP from a different ISP, and smile.'
I do not give up that easy even if I have to go to 'Offcom' .

Wow, so you're looking at trying to force Kcom to sell a FTTP service to you and hoping Ofcom can make them?

Edited by deleted (Tue 04-May-21 17:35:34)

In reply to a post by APTMAN:

Yes I know But they could order a Cablelink.
Re 'Either stick with ADSL from Kcom, or take FTTP from a different ISP, and smile.'
I do not give up that easy even if I have to go to 'Offcom' .

Ah yes, i forgot that OFCOM could force KCOM to purchase a cablelink.

If you're already receiving a FTTC connection from them, they already have a 1GB Cablelink of sort already in, and it's simply not commercially viable for them to upgrade to 10GB in that area yet.

Best thing to do is email KCOM and ask them why they won't, and maybe you can present a business case for them.

In reply to a post by APTMAN:

I do not give up that easy even if I have to go to 'Offcom' .

Good idea. I'm off to get BT to sell me symmetrical 10G over XGSPON.

In reply to a post by CarlTSpeak:

In reply to a post by APTMAN:

I do not give up that easy even if I have to go to 'Offcom' .

Good idea. I'm off to get BT to sell me symmetrical 10G over XGSPON.

Why stop at 10? go for the full 100GB

I don't understand why a provider not having a service available to you would count as something that anybody is going to be interested in hearing a complaint about.

I've not been a Kcom Business customer at any point, but I guess they must be good if you've stuck with an ADSL2+ connection for the seven years that FTTC has been available.

Edited by jpm (Tue 04-May-21 19:12:14)

I get it you like KCom. Now what is reasion why?

What is service you get with KCom that you can not get else where?

The Internet is just a datastream. The datastream get you get for thinkbroadband.com is very same one you would get using BT Zen Vodafone Virgin etc.

For myself I don't care who sells me that datastream(Internet). I see them as Invoicing compain, I dont care about names/logo's etc. I only care that good money that use to pay for service is very service I get in return.

You could have very vailed reasion for not wanting to others.It just we don't know what it could be and it not obvious to myself.

My equipment only has interfaces up to 25G I'm afraid.

I guess I could ask Ofcom to get BT to provide me a 100G router.

Just a thought.

Maybe because Kcom are alrready a full-fibre provider in their own network area, they just aren't interested in selling FTTP from a competitor.

Pretty sure they already do.

Similar experience on the kitz forum.

https://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,25778.0.html

In reply to a post by APTMAN:

Yes I know But they could order a Cablelink.

A GEA cablelink costs £1k+
For a single customer that's quite the outlay.

A GEA cablelink connects the OpenReach L2S (layer 2 switch) to the providers backhaul.
If KCOM don't have their own backhaul at your exchange then a cablelink would be a very expensive cable connected to nothing.

They may simply not want to sell OpenReach FTTP, which is their choice.

I do not give up that easy even if I have to go to 'Offcom' .

OFCOM can't force a company to sell a product or technology.

Edited by j0hn83 (Wed 05-May-21 14:31:56)

Good point, But I have a price off them for the connection for the WBC FTTP it was only when they tried to put the order through they keep saying there is some 'Technical Problem' Still trying to find out what the problem is.

They also tell me they do sell to the rest of the country besides Hull area.

I though I might get some Sensible Answers on here .

Cablelink could be the problem.

80/20 will do me, not interested in faster speeds.

Re ofcom .. If you do not try ...... !

In reply to a post by APTMAN:

Good point, But I have a price off them for the connection for the WBC FTTP it was only when they tried to put the order through they keep saying there is some 'Technical Problem' Still trying to find out what the problem is.

They also tell me they do sell to the rest of the country besides Hull area.

I though I might get some Sensible Answers on here .

Cablelink could be the problem.

80/20 will do me, not interested in faster speeds.

Re ofcom .. If you do not try ...... !

It sounds they just don't have the capacity at your handover point, whether that be a cablelink issue (sounds like it as you've got an FTTC connection with them), but their could be issues upstream with their backhaul.

Best move on and find a different provider who can provide fttp to your property.

I note you said "I have valid reasons to keep with Kcom" but you haven't said what they are, if you are that tied to KCOM then now is as good time as ever to separate out those reasons so you have some choice.

I believe the reason is revealed in the opening post on the Kitz forum ......

I know a lot of you will say go to another ISP.

My Problem, Between all my 'Users' on our accounts we have Hundreds of emails with different people, Firms, Hotels etc, etc. yes I know you can get free email address, it would be a daunting task to change them all, also I have other free websites hosting and 40 hrs of free phone calls as well with Eclipse-Kcom

The easy thing to do was to stop with Kcom as we need port 25 to get the emails though a email browser.

I guess the OP was reluctant to reveal this as there is likely to be a somewhat negative reaction, to put it mildly.

Edited by Realalemadrid (Thu 06-May-21 08:59:11)

My Problem, Between all my 'Users' on our accounts we have Hundreds of emails with different people, Firms, Hotels etc, etc. yes I know you can get free email address, it would be a daunting task to change them all, also I have other free websites hosting and 40 hrs of free phone calls as well with Eclipse-Kcom

Well if that is the case may I suggest creating a plan about moving away. As most ISP have now removed free web hosting/free email services.Now you dont have to do anything today but preplaning for when have to do will make it lot less stressful for when have to. I had to go this sort thing years ago. Something don't really matter like iPlayer where just loss access to what watch before but when have account you pay for ie Netflix,Disney+ that could be diffrent issue.

This could be done in stages, create e-mail address some else.Move everyone over there today that really need to have access to. But keep watch on ISP email address to see if there is anyone you have missed. If after that say a year and haven't need to move them over then really you not using them.

This really for OP - APTMAN
You could do this, some else or nothing. I can not tell what you should do, it just same for Kcom you have no real right to tell Kcom to do anything. All you can do is suggest that you think it be good idea they do something. I have suggested in the past that thinkbroadband (seb) do something (seb) has a differing view and I am fine with that. If you really think you have right other wise, well it only sands to reasion that I also have right to demand you send me £1

PS I really do not want you money!

Update, It's Now in the Hands of Kcom Directors
Lets hope they are in a good mood today.

The other option is whether Kcom will let you pay some money to maintain your Kcom E-mail address, without any attached service.

But I'll also tell you what might happen at any time: Kcom could be taken over by another company. They could then drop their Kcom branding and eventually *drop Kcom E-mail addresses altogether*. I've seen this happen dozens of time over the years.

If you want an E-mail address for life, then buy your own domain name and then pay someone else to host it - probably about £2 per month all together. Or rent an E-mail forwarding address from a reputable E-mail forwarding service.

From what I've read in this thread, I still wouldn't hold out much hope.
I don't see them making a loss on this magnitude to keep one customer happy.

Thanks
Dan

In reply to a post by danielhyde:

From what I've read in this thread, I still wouldn't hold out much hope.
I don't see them making a loss on this magnitude to keep one customer happy.

Appears the OP is fixated on keeping KCOM as the easier option rather than looking at the bigger picture and resolving the dependency on KCOM for email.

Reminds me of those people who know their other half is cheating on them but if they kick off who's going to cook dinner or take the dog for a walk

In reply to a post by APTMAN:

Cablelink could be the problem.

It won't be.
KCom mainly use BT Wholesale outside of their own patch.

And ?.
What are you saying.

The cablelink idea could be a red herring as there is something deeper is going on inside Kcom I think.

Interesting.

In reply to a post by APTMAN:

Interesting.

That is a seven year old news item from ISPReview. What is interesting about it today? <puzzled>

In reply to a post by APTMAN:

And ?.
What are you saying.

The cablelink idea could be a red herring as there is something deeper is going on inside Kcom I think.

I'm simply saying it very likely is a red herring.

A cablelink connects the OpenReach GEA network (FTTC/FTTP/G.Fast) to a providers own backhaul.
So KCom would have to have their own backhaul running to your exchange already for them to need a cablelink.

KCom used to have a fairly large network footprint across much of the middle of England but they sold the majority of it to CityFibre

KCom use BT Wholesale (and maybe Talktalk too) backhaul so their traffic goes over that providers cablelink.

In the thread on kitz the reason given for not being able to plans the order was

We are sorry you Can NOT Order FTTP as you were once an Eclipse customer ..

That simply sounds like you are a legacy customer, probably on some older system that prevents the order being placed.
I'm interested in what the real reason turns out to be

Hopefully someone will be able to manually place the order now that you've been escalated to those above.

Hello.
Either I did not know about it or forgot about it, with only two brains cells left my memory fails some times.

This is the most useful post so far Thanks.

I did not know about them selling there trunk networks to City-fibre (I thought they were contractors who only put fibre in for BT )

I keep getting all sorts of excuses why they can not provide me probably never know why.

Another excuse was when Eclipse became part of Kcom not every thing got transferred over properly.

Re. 'KCom use BT Wholesale' yes I know that's how I get my ADSL2.

They are going to give me a Yes or No on Monday update.

Already got some other 'Second' isp lined up for a FTTP service and then load balance them on my pFsense firewall.

In reply to a post by APTMAN:

I did not know about them selling there trunk networks to City-fibre (I thought they were contractors who only put fibre in for BT )

CityFibre probably this year will be the third biggest FTTP provider in the UK, after BT and Virgin Media. They provide wholesale access to ISPs whom choose to join.

So is this the reason I could not order FTTP ?.

Had an Kcom account message today.

We are writing to let you know about exciting changes happening here at Eclipse.

Currently you are invoiced by Eclipse, part of the KCOM group of companies who provide and support your services. There have been some changes behind the scenes and your contract and services will now be delivered by Eclipse Broadband Ltd, part of the Global 4 Group.

services will continue as KCOM Group Ltd for a short period but will transfer to Eclipse within the next few months.

Decided to leave them soon, so good bye Kcom.

In reply to a post by APTMAN:

There have been some changes behind the scenes and your contract and services will now be delivered by Eclipse Broadband Ltd, part of the Global 4 Group.

So in 2014 Eclipse stopped selling residential products, which is probably the reason you can't upgrade service:
https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2014/10/uk-isp...

Then it seems 1 month ago, the Eclipse consumer business has been sold to Global 4 Group:
https://www.linkedin.com/company/global-4-communicat...

The acquisition means residential customers served by Eclipse Internet Ltd, part of the KCOM Group, will transfer to Eclipse Broadband Ltd, which is owned by Global 4 Group, on 31st March 2021.

Good idea to move ISP.

Edited by jchamier (Thu 20-May-21 21:14:41)

In reply to a post by jchamier:

So in 2014 Eclipse stopped selling residential products, which is probably the reason you can't upgrade service:
https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2014/10/uk-isp...

He says in the OP he's a KCom business customer.
KCom business sell OpenReach FTTP across the country.

Why he's being transferred to this new company, if they only purchased the residential/consumer side of Eclipse, is somewhat confusing.

Agreed, it’s a little confusing.

Edited by jchamier (Thu 20-May-21 23:02:41)

Op needs to stop being a cheapskate get a reseller account with EZPZ, Heart or whoever & get everything managed under one account, simply & easily. [censored] the amount of man hours ensuring that mess works reliably using "free" hosting & emails would easily pay for the cheapest service from EZPZ/Hosting Heroes plus there'd be way more control & features and they'd never need to worry about jumping shop isp wise again.

Total no brainer.

Very Very confusing.

Kcom FTTP At £54 +vat month for 80/20 was not going to be cheap!.

so I am going with the Talktalk Business offer for 100/20 at £29.95 month on a two year contract first 3 months free.

Buy the way TTB said they can Not supply me just yet until they get there 'Cablelinks' installed, 2 to 3 weeks.

See this item.

I wonder who told 'Mark' about it