Cityfibre Install Q - Via Pole

Looking to take out a line soon with Vodafone (using Cityfibre). CityFibre installed a CBT/Fibre terminal on the BT/OpenReach pole some time back.

When the contract is taken out, I assume Cityfibre will come out to then pull the fibre from the pole to the house.

The question I have is, are they quite 'understanding' in the sense if we say to install it in a specific location?

The current BT copper line (from same pole) comes at the back of the house, then the wire goes all the way to the round to the side of the house.

As the ONT requires power, we were thinking of putting it at the front of the house (the closest place where there's a power socket - no other location coming all the way round is there a power socket or close to one). As I believe the ONT requires continuos power.

How likely are CityFibre to run it all the way round for this? I don't actually have any other way to get power to the side of the house it's at.

Current Virgin Media coaxial 'box' is in this same location (front) were I am thinking.

I did try and do a few searches to see if others had any success in 'longer' fibre installs, but either I'm searching the wrong keywords, or someone hasn't documented it, yet!

Sorry can't answer question but if you get any information on the install or the actual Cityfibre/Vodafone service in general please post there doesn't seem to be much detailed information especially when it comes to how and what flexibility there is when installing and the service in general. TIA.

I'd expect they will be 'reasonable' much like most operators in this respect. A lot depends on who you get turning up on the day.

They may decide for instance, depending on where you would like the ONT to be located, that the existing aerial drop and cable route makes less sense than to fix to a new point on the property, and run a different way.

At the end of the day, they want happy new customers, that will be a revenue stream for years to come, so I'd be reasonably relaxed that they will find a way of getting the cabling to where you want/need it. Within reason of course 😀

As the ONT requires power, we were thinking of putting it at the front of the house (the closest place where there's a power socket - no other location coming all the way round is there a power socket or close to one). As I believe the ONT requires continuos power.

How likely are CityFibre to run it all the way round for this? I don't actually have any other way to get power to the side of the house it's at.

The ONT is inside you house/flat that will places near to power point. The ONT is not located outside.

The length of the fibre dosn't have same issue's as copper/coax has, fibre biggest issue is tight bends ie the bend around a finger would be to tight.

This one of ONT that cityfibre uses.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iyEVvEOX3nU
https://youtu.be/Fg3gnW4OSzQ

Edited by amiga_dude (Tue 03-Aug-21 19:19:53)

The way you've written that it sounds like the pole is at the back of your house? Which sounds odd to me.

Edit: Or is the pole on a side street, the "wrong" side of the house for the copper? In which case if you want the fibre at the front presumably they could get to the house at the same point as the copper then run up that side wall, (not the copper one), and round to the front?

Edited by pluralist (Wed 04-Aug-21 18:19:59)

Why would it be odd for the pole to be at the back of a house?

How many houses have you seen where that is the case? Then compare with the number of houses where it is not.

What is normally at the back of a house but not part of the premises? What is normally at the front but not part of the premises? (Ignore the position of the "front door" which can be at the side, as can the "back door").

Edited by pluralist (Sat 14-Aug-21 10:23:06)

I have seen several times on here people making reference to having a telephone pole in their back garden or being fed from the rear (of the property) rather than the front. In my neck of the woods its usually from the front so I always thing its strange when people say differently but for those folk where it does it probably isn't strange.

In reply to a post by pluralist:

What is normally at the front but not part of the premises?

I think it may be tricky to define "front and back". I know of cases where there is no road at the "front" as the house faces a green park. I know of other houses that have a road at the front, and a service road at the back. Those people are lucky to have underground wires

All the '50s builds around here have the poles at the rear of the houses, presumably to keep the wires from crossing busier roads and to keep the streets looking less cluttered.

In reply to a post by JakeRoof:

The question I have is, are they quite 'understanding' in the sense if we say to install it in a specific location?

The current BT copper line (from same pole) comes at the back of the house, then the wire goes all the way to the round to the side of the house.

As the ONT requires power, we were thinking of putting it at the front of the house (the closest place where there's a power socket - no other location coming all the way round is there a power socket or close to one). As I believe the ONT requires continuos power.

How likely are CityFibre to run it all the way round for this? I don't actually have any other way to get power to the side of the house it's at.

Since last time of me writing about this topic I have found that document about Cityfibre.

In reference to www.cityfibre.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/CF-Fact-Sheet_FTTH-Con...:

Standard criteria guidelines:
• Property boundary to building entry
point is circa15 metres

Extended/non-standard examples:
• Property boundary to entry point is over
circa 15 metres

LOL
So in summary, under 14 metres standard price, over 16 metres excess charges. In between, it depends on the installer and the quality of tea/coffee/biscuits on offer .

In reply to a post by jchamier:

In reply to a post by pluralist:

What is normally at the front but not part of the premises?

I think it may be tricky to define "front and back". I know of cases where there is no road at the "front" as the house faces a green park. I know of other houses that have a road at the front, and a service road at the back. Those people are lucky to have underground wires

Quite .

The first of your examples is very unusual, the second rare.

Industrial revolution terraces tended to have alleyways at the back, but not wide enough for vehicles, and rarely have telegraph poles. Telephones didn't exist when they were built, and even as late as the early 1960s the majority of households didn't have telephones anyway. A fact most people won't be aware of, as even people in their thirties I recently asked about mobile phones didn't know that mobiles haven't always existed. Only that they used to be big and heavy, often physically attached to their brick transformer.

Strange that a simple query should elicit such controversy, when its purpose was merely to try to help answer the installation question. As per the edit of the post that took place within a minute.

In fact it took ten days for anyone to query my post. To me that suggests mine wasn't a silly question). (Currently 549 thread views).

Also of interest is that we haven't heard from the OP since his opening post on 2 August. Given that he probably didn't post it late on the evening of going on holiday, I hope he is well.

Perhaps he simply rang CityFibre on the Monday and got a helpful reply.

In reply to a post by jpm:

All the '50s builds around here have the poles at the rear of the houses, presumably to keep the wires from crossing busier roads and to keep the streets looking less cluttered.

In gardens?

In reply to a post by pluralist:

The way you've written that it sounds like the pole is at the back of your house? Which sounds odd to me.

Pretty much every single property in every town around me is served by an overhead feed from telegraph poles in back gardens.

There's no properties fed by poles from the street and only new homes are underground feeds.

It isn't rare, it's just area specific.

Most of the homes around here were built in the 50's and 60's.

You're in Scotland aren't you John? Maybe there is a greater historic prevalence of overhead+back garden there.

In reply to a post by pluralist:

The first of your examples is very unusual, the second rare.

Yes, I forked the discussion, but my point is that the history of why overhead infrastructure is in certain location is going to be lost in time.

A fact most people won't be aware of, as even people in their thirties I recently asked about mobile phones didn't know that mobiles haven't always existed. Only that they used to be big and heavy, often physically attached to their brick transformer.

I'm a mid 70s child and grew up with friends whom had no phone or TV; and the revolutions of the 1980s were dramatic. Those born since the costs dropped dramatically in the 1990s will not have any reason to know. Of course anyone born in 1990 is now 31.

Strange that a simple query should elicit such controversy, when its purpose was merely to try to help answer the installation question.

More interest in why you were asking as the UK is incredibly diverse anything is possible anywhere!

I hope he is well.

Yeah.

In reply to a post by j0hn83:

Most of the homes around here were built in the 50's and 60's.

Similar here, the town has history before, but the primary growth was for the airfield in the early 1900s and then in the 1950s huge expansion as the motorway cut us in half. In terms of phone and electricity cabling its a random collection of overhead and underground.

The things is, and here’s the thing … there is so much variety, so many different scenarios, that it is impossible to a ‘one size fits all’ approach. (and yet many companies still do)

Add to this that these new installations will be going in ‘an Englishman’s castle’ their pride and joy, which they’ve sweated to buy with, a myriad different options and views on what when and how it gets done. It’s surprising that anyone is happy at all.

When I started all those years ago, the customer could literally say ‘I want it there’ and by hook or crook, that’s where it went. You can see why companies ditched that model. People still expect aged extension wiring fixed (for free) because ‘BT fitted it’
{in the bloody seventies}

Look at all the stories these sparsely populated boards have thrown up already to do with their FTTP installs.


A shrewd person might be setting up their own company, which came and ran cat6 cabling from ONT locations to where folk want their internet related gubbins to be.

(It won’t be me, can’t stand running cable in properties)

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

A shrewd person might be setting up their own company, which came and ran cat6 cabling from ONT locations to where folk want their internet related gubbins to be.

(It won’t be me, can’t stand running cable in properties)

A lot of sparks will 'do' data cabling if you ask them, but it's not always done properly or even fully tested/certified (beyond a simple pair continuity test).

Many of the dedicated data cabling installation companies (the ones that have engineers certified to install particular manufactures cabling systems, that is offer a cabling system warranty) shy away from domestic work, because its usually not worth the hassle factor, unless they're cabling a substantial number of points. Even then retrofits are just hassle.

The best time to cable a property is when its either being (re)built or stripped out and refurbed.

The best time to cable a property is when its either being (re)built or stripped out and refurbed.

True dat

[chuckle]
That gives Openreach plus the competition 20-30 years to reach 85% rollout of FTTP. . But none of them dare slacken off for fear of being wiped out.

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

You're in Scotland aren't you John? Maybe there is a greater historic prevalence of overhead+back garden there.

Yes it's normal all over Scotland to have the poles at the back of the houses, usually in the corner of someone's garden.

There's loads of poles in peoples back gardens. Just based on my own experience as a landscaper in Scotland.

Hell, there's one in mines with some tasty fibre on it, but not yet activated.

In reply to a post by Xuse:

Hell, there's one in mines with some tasty fibre on it, but not yet activated.

When I said "people making reference to having a telephone pole in their back garden", you was one of those I was thinking of

It would appear to be a Scottish feature then. Perhaps almost non-existent in the rest of the UK.

'Tis to be hoped getting the equipment in to replace them when that becomes necessary doesn't make much of a mess 😁😂🤣😋😎.

I guess it really might just be a Scottish thing then.

To be fair I don't recall seeing them in peoples gardens when I lived in Manchester, but I'm also quite rural now in comparison to a city like Manchester.

In reply to a post by Xuse:

I guess it really might just be a Scottish thing then.

To be fair I don't recall seeing them in peoples gardens when I lived in Manchester, but I'm also quite rural now in comparison to a city like Manchester.

I think it is actually mostly a Scottish thing as vast majority of feeds I've seen come into back of the houses from poles in peoples garden (mine is fed from a pole in neighbours garden for instance) - its very rare to see a pole in a residential street although they are starting to pop up now as that is how they seem to be running the fibre in - stick a pole in the street and run the fibres to the nearest pole then carry onto the next etc.

Majority that I've seen in England have been on the street which I've always thought looked untidy but that could be as I'm not used to seeing it.

Not unique to Scotland at all, there are hundreds of streets throughout the North-East where the poles are sited behind the houses. Not exclusive to back to back terraces either.

It's still rare compared to any other placing of telegraph poles. It's a stupid argument.

Quite apart from the OP being out of radar range by the look of it.

I repeat: It was a simple question to the OP aimed at helping the guy. None of you seem to give a damn about the reason for the thread.

Bah!

mmm

you complain about other poster but you decided to post this

chuckle]
That gives Openreach plus the competition 20-30 years to reach 85% rollout of FTTP. wink. But none of them dare slacken off for fear of being wiped out.

misinformed and disinforrmed as ever

In reply to a post by Fastman3:

mmm

you complain about other poster but you decided to post this

chuckle]
That gives Openreach plus the competition 20-30 years to reach 85% rollout of FTTP. wink. But none of them dare slacken off for fear of being wiped out.

misinformed and disinforrmed as ever

It's unclear which other poster you mean. Maybe you need to learn to write sense,

It's possible you refer to the poster that was a reply to, but couldn't even quote without messing up. If so, you don't understand plain English either, as there is no criticism there of him.

This is now the 32nd post in this thread. OP one. Relevant and possibly helpful to him, the first four replies and the second one by amiga_dude.

Given you have just made your only post in the thread, what is the point of your existence? Are you proud?

Sincere apologies for the delayed reply - we did leave for a holiday soon after (did the four countries tour of GB), and since returning I can't usually access the site during working hours (this forum was somewhat addicting to read sometime back, so installed a plugin that blocks certain websites, during work hours!

Anyway, so the area we live in, the houses were built a very, very long time ago - maybe circa 60's. All the houses, or at least most houses have an access at the back. what we may refer to as a 'back alley'. Our back gardens exit there, and the bins etc are collected from there, too.

Most OpenReach poles in the area, are in these back alley's, so that is how current OpenReach telephones lines come - to the back of the house.

Hence the question, as CityFibre's 'line' will come from this same pole.

After looking further into this new contract, it seems this area isn't yet ready, and although everything from CityFibre was sorted sometime back, apparently the internet isn't yet ready for this area, and could be another 9 months or so - or it could be sooner, or it could be later - yes - never did get a straight answer from Vodafone.

Thanks to all the replies, I have got some useful information, including the 15 metre rule - I think we may come within this limit, however, as advised by someone, I shall ensure the tea/coffee/biscuits are at the ready - eventually when it does become live!

EDIT: Here's a stock picture of what it would potentially look like, for those shocked at the concept of a pole at the back - here.

Edited by JakeRoof (Mon 23-Aug-21 11:35:54)

Due to unforeseen circumstances, we weren't able to take out a line using CityFibre's network last August 2021, however, that day finally came today (albeit a year late, might I add!).

For anyone interested, the CityFibre installers from Kelly Communication, were very understanding, and exactly as requested, that's where they put as the point of entry into the house, despite extra work for them.

Their workmanship was second to none, and left it all extremely neat. They did mention houses they've worked on get randomly audited in terms of the quality of the work they produce, so the work has to be top notch.

I'm just adding in this information, should anyone else find themselves in a similar predicament.

Nice one Jake. Glad it all went well. 👍

(The other 99% of this thread made me chuckle. Again)

In reply to a post by JakeRoof:

For anyone interested, the CityFibre installers from Kelly Communication, were very understanding, and exactly as requested, that's where they put as the point of entry into the house, despite extra work for them.

Their workmanship was second to none, and left it all extremely neat. They did mention houses they've worked on get randomly audited in terms of the quality of the work they produce, so the work has to be top notch.

Kelly's have had a bad reputation so its really good you have posted something positive about them, lets hope this becomes the norm.

Hope you enjoy your new connection

Pluralist

It is common is Wales as well, Many back alleys in Cardiff and the valleys have poles in. It has had the benefit that there has been very little road disruption while they have been clearing ducts etc in those areas. Also helps where there are rows of low terraced houses as no high vehicles use the lanes and therefore the OH cables don't get torn down, normal termination height may only be 14 foot (4.5m).