Order FTTP but keep landline

Hi

We'd like to order FTTP but keep our landline, which my mum, who's elderly, uses a lot.

I've read some people say that you can't have a landline with FTTP and others say that if you've already got a copper line, you can keep your landline.

Does anyone know the answer to this? We'd like to keep our number. I'm well aware that the PSTN's being switched off in a few years time.

Thanks

Paul

Edited by paul_liverpoolfc (Wed 15-Sep-21 20:54:08)

I have FTTP and have the phone on the original copper so yes it is done.

Thanks. Who do you have it with?

We're currently with Talk Talk and I was thinking of moving to BT and selecting the 'keep landline' option on the order page.

Edited by paul_liverpoolfc (Wed 15-Sep-21 20:59:04)

BT

You can migrate from FTTC to FTTP with BT, for example, and use their “Digital Voice” service (which is your ‘landline’ over the Internet connection).
However, you are limited to using their router.

Not all FTTP providers will offer a voice service, with many doing data only.

I’ve taken the decision to get FTTP installed alongside the existing FTTC, then will migrate / port the landline over to a free VOIP provider (Sipgate) for future proofing and unbundling the landline from my internet provider.

When you move from FTTC to FTTP with BT retail, at *their* option they could leave the voice on copper or they could provide you with digital voice via a port on the router. Which you get depends on the area you are in. You have no say in this.

However I would expect them to move to 100% digital voice, if they haven't done so already.

Therefore if you really, really need to keep the copper then your only option is:
- take a separate FTTP service
- cease the FTTC on your copper line (keeping the voice)

But this will cost you nearly £20 per month more for the privilege. Optionally you could transfer the copper line rental to a provider other than BT, which might get you down to the £10-£15 range.

As you already know, the PSTN will be completely switched off by 2025. Given that contracts may be up to 2 years, I'd expect no renewals of PSTN being offered by 2023.

Therefore I think you're going to have to swallow the digital voice pretty soon - or remain on FTTC as long as you can.

To be honest, I don't think your mum will be able to tell the difference between voice via a socket on the router and voice via a socket on the wall. They both provide dialtone and work with analogue phones. The potential issues are:

1. emergency calls when there's a power cut. Do you get them often in your area? If so you may want to buy a UPS
2. alarms, monitors and emergency call buttons; these may need to be upgraded to a version which works over IP

Edited by candlerb (Thu 16-Sep-21 08:02:46)

In reply to a post by candlerb:

Given that contracts may be up to 2 years, I'd expect no renewals of PSTN being offered by 2023.

That’s an interesting observation! I wonder if / how that will pan out.

It entirely depends on your ISP of choice and for some ISP's it depends where in the country you are.

With BT you can keep your landline but the computer will decide during the order process whether the landline will be provided via the copper or via VOIP/Digital Voice.
The main difference being the phone is plugged in to the BT Hub on Digital Voice rather than plugged in to the BT phone socket on the wall.

I ordered BT for a neighbour around a month ago on FTTP and the computer automatically picked Digital Voice.
There was no way to change this to use the copper line despite 1 being present.

If your mother's exchange area is an area where BT have their Digital Voice ready and rolling out you may well find there is no way to sign up to FTTP while keeping the copper line active for calls.

If the area isn't yet using Digital Voice they can simply change your mother's service to Digital Voice at any point during the contract.

My mother joined BT FTTP around 2 years ago and retained her copper line for calls.
Around 9 months ago she was informed the line would be switching from copper to Digital Voice.
In the letter she was sent she was advised that if she had an alarm that required the copper line she could delay the switch to Digital Voice (I believe it said for a year) to give time to find a solution to the alarm. She took up that option.

However around a month ago she received a BT Smart Hub 2 in the post along with notification that the line was switching to Digital Voice.
This time there was no option to delay it and the switch happened last week.

The PSTN switch off is happening in 2025 and BT plan to be ready ahead of schedule.
They may not be the best choice of provider if your mother is insistent on having a copper phone line.

Edited by j0hn83 (Thu 16-Sep-21 11:24:58)

In reply to a post by candlerb:

Given that contracts may be up to 2 years, I'd expect no renewals of PSTN being offered by 2023.

BT's current contracts don't actually state if the line is Digital Voice or PSTN.
BT can (and do) switch you from PSTN to Digital Voice mid contract.

I agree that any provider who does specifically state PSTN in their contract will stop offering renewals of those contracts.

Apparently Sky are still flexible in allowing you to choose PSTN over their VOIP service on FTTC.
No idea if they allow the same on FTTP.

In reply to a post by j0hn83:

Apparently Sky are still flexible in allowing you to choose PSTN over their VOIP service on FTTC.
No idea if they allow the same on FTTP.

There’s this little gotcha in their Ultrafast and Ultrafast Plus pre-reg here

Sky Broadband Ultrafast: Subject to status. Speeds vary by location. Sky Broadband Ultrafast is available to 25% of UK homes. Not available to customers without a mobile signal at home or reliant on their landline for emergency services. Talk service uses your broadband connection to make calls. Average speeds: 145Mbps (download) and 27Mbps (upload). Average download speed: shown for fixed line connection to your Hub; excludes WiFi performance which varies by device and home environment.

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

In reply to a post by candlerb:

Given that contracts may be up to 2 years, I'd expect no renewals of PSTN being offered by 2023.

That’s an interesting observation! I wonder if / how that will pan out.

It will be down to individual CPs. They might choose to:

1. Supply a new router with in-built ATA
2. Send out a separate ATA that plugs into the existing router
3. Cease to offer voice services altogether - in which case they might offer to migrate your voice number to a SIP provider with a softphone or app, and/or let some customers leave.

BT and Sky have been doing (1) for a while. Talktalk have currently chosen (3) for their FTTP services, so they might do the same for FTTC; or they might come up with a voice solution and back-port it to future FTTP customers.

Indeed yes. I was thinking about the timeline. That in actual fact December 2025 deadline for WLR withdrawal will in some ways be a December 2023 deadline in a commercial sense for new/renewing services.

Something in the order of 4 million voice only circuits with no broadband, the bulk will no doubt be with BT. Still seems like a challenging prog.

There will quite possibly be quite a few that will ‘wither on the vine’ and not be migrated to VoIP I suspect, given the decades long decline in fixed line call volumes etc generally

Just ordered fttp from pulse8 and keeping copper voice only line. More expensive option but only 1 month contract. Suits my needs.

As a basic question, is the point at issue that your mother wants to retain the old-style copper technology or that she wants to retain a phone that looks and works like her existing connection of her existing landline number?

If the first, she is going to have to face up to the fact that sooner or later the copper technology is going to be removed anyway so she will have to change to a fibre connection whether she feels comfortable with that technology or not.

If it is the case that she wishes to retain kit at the user interface that looks and acts like her existing phone then it is immaterial what connection is used as there is kit available for fibre connection that looks and works just like her existing phone and which will still use her existing phone number. Perhaps it would help if you could put her mind at rest about that.

When your Mother's line went from copper to Digital Voice, did the telephone number transfer as well?

Also, I take it that she now has to key in the full 11-digit number of who she is calling, even if next door?

Many thanks.

Cheers!

In reply to a post by Ancient_Mariner:

When your Mother's line went from copper to Digital Voice, did the telephone number transfer as well?

Yes.

Also, I take it that she now has to key in the full 11-digit number of who she is calling, even if next door?

I would need to check that.

In reply to a post by Ancient_Mariner:

Also, I take it that she now has to key in the full 11-digit number of who she is calling, even if next door?

Many thanks.

Cheers!

I think thats become mandatary for the last year or so

In reply to a post by Taras:

In reply to a post by Ancient_Mariner:

Also, I take it that she now has to key in the full 11-digit number of who she is calling, even if next door?

Many thanks.

Cheers!

I think thats become mandatary for the last year or so

I don't think it is a universal requirement on PSTN lines yet although it has been trialled in some areas. OfCOM have a consultation document out with a set of proposals due in the autumn where it is expected that the local dialling will be discontinued. The rationale behind the proposal is that it will free up a new range of of numbers. For example Bournemouth (STD code 01202) is one of the areas where the local dialling has been discontinued. This has freed up the range of numbers 01202 0XX XXXX. When local dialling was enabled numbers in the 0XX XXXX local range could not be used due to the conflict with STD codes so an additional million numbers available (give or take).

Edited by GonePostal (Thu 16-Sep-21 18:21:19)

Dialling plans and local number prefix is a well supported feature in many VoIP phone bases or handsets. I used to do it in asterisk but I know for example the trusty Gigaset N300 series of DECT bases (which has both VoIP and PSTN capable ports) support it as well as many soft phones.

The consultation was due to end on 2nd July 2021:
https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2021/04/ofcom-...

Back in around 2014, local dialing was proposed to be withdrawn in 5 areas other than 01202:
https://www.ofcom.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0032...

Aberdeen (01224), Bradford (01274), Brighton (01273), Middlesbrough (01642) and Milton Keynes (01908)

I don't know if it happened or not.

Yeah I'm local to bournemouth and knew of the change, but i didn't look into much more about it, hence my "i think".

I had a new FTTP installed (using Zen as ISP) and was running FTTC & FTTP (on different ISPs) for a couple of weeks - I could have moved the coper line to just telephone if I wished, but instead moved number to a VoIP provider - the only disadvantage is if power goes so does telephone line,

Aberdeen here and indeed it did happen as we almost ran out of numbers. I use my mobile for calls so makes no differance about dialing the full number to me. Home phone used for the few incoming calls we get.
About to move providers to FTTP so keeping current line as is till it goes through & I can connect my equipment to the new provider, once it's done will see about moving the home phone over to a sip provider and cancelling the old FTTC line
No way the son could handle the internet being down for any length of time.

Just in case it wasn't obvious - you can keep the original voice service with any ISP (that offers both copper voice lines and FTTP) by just having the new FTTP service installed as a second line.

In reply to a post by andrum99:

Just in case it wasn't obvious - you can keep the original voice service with any ISP (that offers both copper voice lines and FTTP) by just having the new FTTP service installed as a second line.

However, do note:

(a) that is a very expensive way to do it. Expect to pay £15+ per month for the privilege of a copper voice-only landline.

(b) the baseband voice network will be switched off soon. Copper will remain but voice will be delivered digitally over broadband, meaning you'll need a router with a phone port. Voice-only copper lines will be converted to a slow broadband service (0.5Mbps up and down).

The switchoff will be completed by end of 2025, meaning that come 2023 it will become very hard to order or even renew an analogue voice service.

Therefore, it makes much more sense to port your number to a standalone VOIP provider and access it over the Internet. The monthly rental can be as low as zero (for Sipgate Basic) or £1.44 (AAISP).

You can test it out using a VOIP phone client on your PC or smartphone, then buy an ATA or SIP DECT base station. There's also a new generation of smartphone "native push" clients that don't need to run continuously in the background - Acrobits Groundwire.