FTTP Priority exchange

Hi,

My mother uses TalkTalk for FTTC broadband and calls. A few months back her contract expired and I have been trying and failing to renew it. As she is in her 80s, doesn't understand any of the technicalities, is hard of hearing and has trouble with foreign accents, it falls upon me to handle such matters, so I use the web chat so I can pretend to be her (my 'old lady' impersonation is not up to the standards required for a voice call).

Twice in recent months I've negotiated a new contract only to find they have not pushed it through. The second time the lady said "I see you are in an FTTP-only area" to which I replied "That must be a mistake as I have FTTC right now" at which point she accepted this and processed the order.

Since it failed again (despite the confirmation email and letter) I've been digging around and the exchange LNDAG (Dagenham, East London) is listed as an 'FTTP Priority Exchange' with a 'PSTN/ISDN stop sell' on it.

Am I right in thinking that this is why the FTTC renewal is failing?
https://www.telecom-tariffs.co.uk/codelook.htm?xid=9...

My mother relies on the land line, and the TalkTalk website has no renewal or upgrade options for her when I'm logged into her account. Do they even sell FTTP with phone? I can't see it anywhere.

She has no need for the extra speed (currently on Fibre 35), so I'm hoping there's a reasonably-priced FTTP+phone deal she can switch to with some other provider. She needs an all-inclusive call plan, and I think it should be something where her existing DECT base station can plug into the router if there's no POTS socket anymore. We want to be able to just plug in and carry on, not faff about with separate VoIP providers etc.

I'm a bit lost with regards to who offfers what and at what price, with regards to voice options.

Any clarification and guidance appreciated!

Dagenham (LNDAG) is within the first tranche of exchanges listed under the FTTP Priority Exchange stop sell programme. Stop Sell at this exchange was implemented from 21 October. As explained here.

This means that as your mothers property falls within that exchange area *and* is capable of being connected to FTTP (not all properties necessarily will be) then any orders from this date must utilise FTTP rather than copper. In Openreach words “… this won’t just mean no new supply, but also, you won't be able to do working line takeovers, start of stopped lines, migrations, CP transfers, addition of broadband to copper voice lines, bandwidth modify, or addition of lines and channels to existing installations.”

If you don’t want to go down the route of using an independent VoIP provider, there are many other ISPs that offered a bundled voice service with their FTTP plans, just that TalkTalk is not one of them, at the moment anyway.

Typically in practice this means the router the particular ISP supplies has, as you note, an analogue RJ11 type socket voice port (FXS) on it, which provides dial tone, and which any ordinary handset or wireless telephone base, that would have otherwise been connected to the copper landline can instead be connected.

Edited by Pheasant (Sun 12-Dec-21 09:02:25)

For ISPs who do FTTP with bundled voice - i.e. they provide a router with a POTS port that you just plug your existing phone into - today I think your main choices are BT, Sky and Zen (possibly EE, I'm not sure about that one). The cheapest is likely to be BT, but will come with 24 month contract and you need to check around for referral links to get the best deal. Try these:

https://www.bt.com/broadband/deals
https://www.bt.com/campaign/full-fibre
https://www.bt.com/campaign/full-fibre-240
https://www.bt.com/broadband/bristol
https://www.bt.com/products/affiliate-packages-broad...
-> https://www.bt.com/broadband/deals/affiliate-offer/

"Fibre Essentials" is delivered as either FTTC or FTTP, so in a stop-sell area you can be pretty sure it will be FTTP.

It's unfortunate that you're one of the early people who are being forced onto FTTP before the remaining main ISPs are ready for it. I think you could probably continue to roll on your existing out-of-contract bundle with Talktalk for a year or two, but sooner or later Openreach are going to push hard to disconnect the copper (exactly how they will do that has not been explained).

I think you need to discuss with Talktalk what they can do for you as a "vulnerable" customer. If you can get Talktalk to admit that they can't supply the service you need today, then you ought to be able to push them to discount your out-of-contract monthly fee to a reasonable level until such time as they *are* able to offer you a new service.

Alternatively:

1. The separate VOIP provider is not such a difficult thing to set up. However you probably wouldn't want to stick with Talktalk anyway, because their minimum FTTP package is 150M at £35 per month.

2. Is there a good mobile signal coverage in her area? I think it's possible to get a mobile broadband router with a POTS port. Or: you could simply give her a mobile phone, and put a few charging ports at strategic places around the home - but then she'd have to remember to carry it around. You can get unlimited minutes on mobile for less than £5 per month (and without long-term contract). Even if you have a landline, using the mobile for calling *outbound* is much cheaper than buying a landline call package.

I also think there is a separate discussion to be had with your mother about a limited power of attorney - whether it's needed now or should be prepared for later use - so that you can help with this and similar issues in a more official way.

Edited by candlerb (Sun 12-Dec-21 09:32:58)

In reply to a post by candlerb:

I also think there is a separate discussion to be had with your mother about a limited power of attorney - whether it's needed now or should be prepared for later use - so that you can help with this and similar issues in a more official way.

This is such a great point, Lasting Power of Attorney (LPA) for both Financial and Health/Wellbeing are such important discussions to be had with loved ones as they can make a huge difference when needing the authority to act on behalf of someone when they can't do it themselves.

Edited by deleted (Sun 12-Dec-21 09:54:13)

In reply to a post by candlerb:

For ISPs who do FTTP with bundled voice - i.e. they provide a router with a POTS port that you just plug your existing phone into - today I think your main choices are BT, Sky and Zen (possibly EE, I'm not sure about that one). The cheapest is likely to be BT, but will come with 24 month contract and you need to check around for referral links to get the best deal.

Don’t know why, but I thought there were more providers doing bundled voice on pure FTTP. Anyhow I had a quick look at EE and it doesn’t look like they are offering bundled voice service their full fibre packages, only the FTTC packages.

There were rumours that Plusnet were going to launch their FTTP service (with voice) by the end of the year…but doesn’t appear they have. Maybe first quarter of next year.

Edit: think I had in mind the various AltNets who bundle voice in on their FTTP packages. Seems really the choice is quite narrow with bundled voice providers on Openreach - just the three main providers you mentioned.

Edited by Pheasant (Sun 12-Dec-21 12:23:25)

Plusnet and FTTP is like Fusion reactors, always a set time away which never changes

In reply to a post by dect:

In reply to a post by candlerb:

I also think there is a separate discussion to be had with your mother about a limited power of attorney - whether it's needed now or should be prepared for later use - so that you can help with this and similar issues in a more official way.

This is such a great point, Lasting Power of Attorney (LPA) for both Financial and Health/Wellbeing are such important discussions to be had with loved ones as they can make a huge difference when needing the authority to act on behalf of someone when they can't do it themselves.

This is great advice. In fact my sister already has power of attorney over all her financials. She lives near my mother whereas I do not. However my sister is a 'technophobe' and wouldn't be able to sort this out any better than my mum would!

Fusion will probably happen faster 🤣

Is a copper stop-sell relevant to TalkTalk being able to renew a contract though? It's just a billing operation on TalkTalk's side, and no order gets placed with Openreach.

I can understand if they are using this as an opportunity to move customers to FTTP as they need to get on with the process, but everything I know about this process would say that this is a TalkTalk decision.

Thanks - my mother has a mobile phone, but you always wonder about it being charged or to hand in an emergency. I was hoping for a seamless integration which it seems like only BT, Sky, Zen can offer right now, but at a price.

The point of renewing her current FTTC+anytime calls package was to get the price back down from its current £45-ish (I had agreed £28 with TT). Getting FTTP with voice (BT/Sky) or FTTP+£10 Sipgate VoIP service will not save any money right now. So I may as well let it roll along at the current price for a while until more ISPs get there FTTP acts together. She has no problems affording it anyway to be honest, it was just a point of principle about not paying over the odds, but being forced onto FTTP means you are being forced to pay over the odds.

I was hoping an ISP would come up with a cheap 40/10 for people that don't need speed but can no longer order ADSL or VDSL. Maybe they will in time.

Another annoyance is that she has only ever used TalkTalk and her TT email address is linked to everything she does online. Not a deal breaker, but if TT launch an FTTP+voice service in the near future (and I think they are trialling one now?) it would be the path of least resistance.

Message 6 on this post below mentions a digital voice trial. I wouldn't get my mum involved in any trial (she wouldn't make a good beta tester) but at least there is something in the pipeline. She doesn't use TalkTalk TV either, just Freeview.
https://community.talktalk.co.uk/t5/Fibre/Digital-Vo...

Regarding the FTTP-only + separate VoIP provider; I have a Fritzbox 7530 (I have Zen FTTC) so I could presumably take that round and set up Sipgate on it. She has a bunch of Gigaset phones around the place, so the base station can (I think) plug into the Fritz or maybe even use its built-in DECT facilities. If I spot a cheap FTTP deal I could pursue that. Vodafone seem to have a cheap offering but it appears to not be available at her postcode (RM10 7AB).

Thanks for all the advice guys. It's all a bit clearer now, a few options to consider...

Who knows. Maybe an equinox incentive.

In reply to a post by jpm:

Is a copper stop-sell relevant to TalkTalk being able to renew a contract though? It's just a billing operation on TalkTalk's side, and no order gets placed with Openreach.

I can understand if they are using this as an opportunity to move customers to FTTP as they need to get on with the process, but everything I know about this process would say that this is a TalkTalk decision.

Not sure but I notice that the 'service withdrawn' date is exactly 2 years after the 'stop-sell' date, presumably to allow any last-minute 2-year contracts to expire.

The TT person did say "I see you are in an FTTP-only area" which I disputed (based on what I knew at the time). Twice they put the order through and twice they cancelled it (it appeared and then disappeared from her account). The first time, they gave me the new £28 price for the higher Fibre 65 package (I was quoting rival company prices so they were trying to add value) so that would have been a regrade of the service and not allowed I believe. The second time I left it at the current Fibre 35 level and it still failed to go through,

Re ''A few months back her contract expired'' Just leave it do not doing anything and just keep paying for it.

My Eclipse contract expired 13 years ago, I will not do anything about it and just keep paying the monthly bill (I have FTTP now with 'Trunk Networks') and I am just keeping the Eclipse one for a short while why I change over my emails on Eclipse.

Except that the larger ISPs have a greater in-contract to out-of-contract price differential than the smaller ISPs to encourage recontracting.

In reply to a post by Glenn2:

Regarding the FTTP-only + separate VoIP provider; I have a Fritzbox 7530 (I have Zen FTTC) so I could presumably take that round and set up Sipgate on it. She has a bunch of Gigaset phones around the place, so the base station can (I think) plug into the Fritz or maybe even use its built-in DECT facilities. If I spot a cheap FTTP deal I could pursue that. Vodafone seem to have a cheap offering but it appears to not be available at her postcode (RM10 7AB).

Check your Gigaset base, it may well have VoIP capability built-in. Not sure if you could use the Fritz with third party VoIP if it’s running Zen firmware, even though it has the requisite ports etc.

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

In reply to a post by Glenn2:

Regarding the FTTP-only + separate VoIP provider; I have a Fritzbox 7530 (I have Zen FTTC) so I could presumably take that round and set up Sipgate on it. She has a bunch of Gigaset phones around the place, so the base station can (I think) plug into the Fritz or maybe even use its built-in DECT facilities. If I spot a cheap FTTP deal I could pursue that. Vodafone seem to have a cheap offering but it appears to not be available at her postcode (RM10 7AB).

Check your Gigaset base, it may well have VoIP capability built-in. Not sure if you could use the Fritz with third party VoIP if it’s running Zen firmware, even though it has the requisite ports etc.

It's the Gigaset E370 which doesn't have VoIP.

My Fritz is de-Zenned. I run OpenWRT on it now but I know from previously flashing back from OpenWRT using the manufacturers recovery tool, that it's no longer Zen-flavoured once this is done. (I.e., there's no longer a default 'Zen' provider option and you have to set the VLAN ID to 101 manually if you use the internal modem, etc.). I think I've read of people using Sipgate on the Fritz.

Sounds like the Fritz will be a good option. Otherwise if that dent work out another Gigaset DECT base, VoIP native, would be a good alternative given you have Gigaset handsets.

In reply to a post by candlerb:

2. Is there a good mobile signal coverage in her area? I think it's possible to get a mobile broadband router with a POTS port. Or: you could simply give her a mobile phone, and put a few charging ports at strategic places around the home - but then she'd have to remember to carry it around. You can get unlimited minutes on mobile for less than £5 per month (and without long-term contract). Even if you have a landline, using the mobile for calling *outbound* is much cheaper than buying a landline call package.

Note you can get a "normal" phone that takes a SIM card and uses a mobile signal. You can even get "retro" styled ones like this

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B074FTWS29/

though that is a bit pricey. You can get much cheaper more modern ones

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/224558399382

My mother in law was in the same position and it actually puts people in these areas at a disadvantage as most of the ISPs are not offering their deals over FTTP yet - you are really stuck with going with BT or staying with your existing provider.

Does she by any chance claim any pension credits? https://www.bt.com/exp/broadband/home-essentials - my MIL does claim a little so was eligible for this. Did need Openreach to install the FTTP but she lives in a flat where the equipment was outside the front door already so very simple. It is digital voice but the 2x supplied simple WiFi phones are perfectly usable or you can plug in your existing handsets to the BT router

In reply to a post by sammyg901:

Does she by any chance claim any pension credits? https://www.bt.com/exp/broadband/home-essentials - my MIL does claim a little so was eligible for this. Did need Openreach to install the FTTP but she lives in a flat where the equipment was outside the front door already so very simple. It is digital voice but the 2x supplied simple WiFi phones are perfectly usable or you can plug in your existing handsets to the BT router

Wow - thanks for this! Yes she does get pension credits, so I'm sure she is eligible. That's £15 a month for the lowest 38Mbps package that has 700 minutes of phone time and only £20 for 76Mbps with unlimited minutes. So that will do nicely as she uses the phone a lot.

I don't know where the fibre actually is (beyond the cabinet) as she only has copper at the moment, but if it is 'FTTP priority' and you can no longer order FTTC anyway, I assume this is no barrier and they just come round and do whatever needs to be done.

In reply to a post by Glenn2:

In reply to a post by sammyg901:

Does she by any chance claim any pension credits? https://www.bt.com/exp/broadband/home-essentials - my MIL does claim a little so was eligible for this. Did need Openreach to install the FTTP but she lives in a flat where the equipment was outside the front door already so very simple. It is digital voice but the 2x supplied simple WiFi phones are perfectly usable or you can plug in your existing handsets to the BT router

Wow - thanks for this! Yes she does get pension credits, so I'm sure she is eligible. That's £15 a month for the lowest 38Mbps package that has 700 minutes of phone time and only £20 for 76Mbps with unlimited minutes. So that will do nicely as she uses the phone a lot.

I don't know where the fibre actually is (beyond the cabinet) as she only has copper at the moment, but if it is 'FTTP priority' and you can no longer order FTTC anyway, I assume this is no barrier and they just come round and do whatever needs to be done.

Yes exactly, you book an appointment and they come and sort out installing the ONT (so you'll need 2 power sockets where the new cable comes in). I arranged it for a day I could be there so she didn't need to worry.

It's a really great deal and not at all well publicised - I saw it mentioned elsewhere on here. My MIL migrated from TalkTalk to digital voice and the number transfer was pretty smooth, seemed to take about a day longer for incoming calls to reach the phone.

Fabulous - I'll get Christmas and new year out of the way then I'll get onto it (covid situation permitting as she is vulnerable).

Thanks again.