FTTP

I'm moving soon and have ordered FTTP to the new house which was built 2008. The phone line is all underground and the master socket is in the lounge fed from below by ducting already installed

Quick question-having read detail on the install - why is a CSP at all necessary on an outside wall if BT can feed the new fibre the whole way through existing copper ducting to the master socket

This would avoid the need to drill a hole and feed fibre afresh from an external CSP to the the ONT and the resulting cabling around skirting to get to the beside master socket where I want the ONT to be

Edited by alanb2001 (Sun 09-Jan-22 18:07:51)

The CSP usually replaces the top cover of the external feed in. On a modern new build it shouldn't require any drilling. The fibre should enter the property using the same hole the existing copper feed uses.

It's irrelevant whether a CSP is used or not when it comes to getting fibre along skirting boards. In both cases the feed should enter at the same point and terminate at the same place in your living room.

A CSP is necessary because that's the deployment method Openreach have chosen. It allows them to do much of the work without the homeowner/occupier being present. It means if there's any issues with the incoming feed then the whole drop cable doesn't need replaced.

When using a CSP the internal fibre is pre terminated.
When using a connectorised drop cable without a CSP the engineer needs to attach a field fit connector at the ONT end of the fibre cable. These aren't as reliable and have a higher failure rate. Splicing the fibre with a pre terminated connector is more robust.

thats great - thanks for clarifying- basically I will have a CSP still but routed from there along existing copper ducting so no need for drilling a new hole

My BT duct comes into an enclosed porch into my equipment cupboard, there is fitted the CSP .
Remember you will need two 13A sockets, one for the ONT and one for your router.

A neat install done correctly will replace the outside capping:
as seen here
with a CSP and should hopefully look
something like this.

It doesn't always look that neat and for some reason some engineers choose to drill a new hole and offset the CSP
Looking something like this

ive a partial buried in ground cable, they dug into my garden to find the duct, brought the fibre up the duct then put a new microduct under my grass and into my house and fitted an internal CSP. Loads of options

Its quite funny seeing those previous copper points sticking out the wall so much, the guys that did the copper install round here drilled a small brick sized hole only covered directly by the duct capping, no mastic literally like an outdoor knockout box straight through into the living room, so from outside you can rewire the inside of the master socket, not sure it's meant to be that way but everyone round here has it.

We also seem to have a load of internal wires that go directly via the inside through ducting that goes to the knockout box outside where the OR external capping covers. (seems a bit bodged to me)

example of the type of external capping in the Openreach-Fibre-Handbook on page 15

If you really object to the CSP you can have an internal one fitted, which is white and a lot smaller. But you will need to have one or the other.

As mentioned by another poster, it needs to have the external cable spliced to a pre-terminated internal cable. The field fit connectors are a thing of the past, due to the high failure rate.

I think its worth making clear that the existing copper service is most probably ducted to the outside wall of the property and not all the way to the master socket so this ducting will be reused for the fibre service and a CSP will be fitted where the fibre comes out of the duct on that outside wall but there will still be a need to run the fibre internally from the CSP to where you want the ONT (most likely around skirting boards) unless their is an accessible internal conduit in place that goes between the two points.

Edited by deleted (Mon 10-Jan-22 10:51:06)

yes - thank you- i guess the bt engineer can assess this when he visits and we discuss how to bring the fibre cable in - would be handy if there was ducting to the master socket - it is on an internal wall coming from beneath so possibly ducting rather than just the bare wires ?

hey thank you for reference to handbook - very useful!

Not all 'new build' house builders do the internal cabling the same way so if its a solid floor they may have put a conduit in (if thats the way its been run) but I think you would need to do some investigation yourself before the FTTP installer arrives as theres no guarantee there will be time on the day to start looking for conduit runs if they are hidden under carpets or behind walls.

Are you sure it's fed from a duct popping up inside your house? I rented a 2002-build and the master phone socket was on an internal wall, but the BT duct still terminated on the front of the building - there was just a three pair phone cable run between those locations by the house builder.

It's probably worth trying to get the duct broken outside your property so that any gas leaks or issues with water in the BT network don't end up inside your house.

FYI - I have had a fair few new builds and one of them put the BT Duct in to terminate in a cupboard under the stairs (with power adjacent) - they had thought OR were going to put in FTTP - but that didn't happen (as the developer didn't want to fund it at the time!) but they still did the install in the same way. i.e. the copper came in via the duct under the stairs.
This was a cast concrete floor.

So as you say different ways of doing it.

ive never noticed any existing capping outside the property for the phone so i think it is ducted the whole way underground into the house?

see these photos of front external wall and master socket in lounge

https://ibb.co/DMbvp2X
https://ibb.co/tJTQLqw

The access panel to the side is for electricity/gas only?

yes this houses the electric meter - mind you i never thought to double check if any bt capping is inside too - would this be allowed or sensible - ie might cause interference?

I agree, I don't think it would be a good idea, but just wanted to check. It looks like the cable has to cross your hallway somehow, and I wasn't sure if it's coming in from the side or the front.

Anyway, I wouldn't worry too much - the engineer will sort it. For example, it might be possible for them to use the current copper to pull a draw-rope, and then pull the fibre and copper back through.

BTW I thought the filing cabinet was a 19" rack at first

Can you put your postcode and then door number into the BT Broadband Availability Checker and let us know what is says for your property on the following line

'Our records show the following FTTP network service information for these premises:'

here are the results from the checker

https://ibb.co/SRbDYTV

Here's the timeline


Sat 8 Jan 2022
You placed your order
for Broadband
Sat 8 Jan 2022
My BT app
The My BT app makes it easy to manage your account - it lets you:

See what you've used
Keep track of your bills and payments
Stay up to date with the progress of your order
Setup Complete Wi-Fi
Get a helping hand if you need it
To download the app or to find out more, visit www.bt.com/products/my-bt


My BT app information
Visit our My BT help section
Visit our Complete Wi-Fi help section
Sat 8 Jan 2022
BT Wi-Fi app
The BT Wi-Fi app allows you to:

Gain access to over 5 million BT Wi-Fi hotspots throughout the UK
Connect to a close by BT Wi-Fi hotspot while we get your services setup
To find out more, visit https://www.btwifi.co.uk


BT Wi-Fi App Information
Visit our BT Wi-Fi help section
Mon 24 Jan 2022
Engineer visit - outside your property
Status: Estimated
Our engineers will complete work external to your property

Mon 31 Jan 2022
Equipment delivery
AWAITING DISPATCH
Dispatch date: -
Estimated delivery date: 31 Jan 2022
Your equipment is waiting to be dispatched and once it has been dispatched we will update you. We are working to deliver your items by the estimated delivery date.
You will receive
Equipment Serial number
Smart Hub 2
-
Show details
Wed 2 Feb 2022
Engineer visit
for Broadband
Estimated arrival between 08:00 - 13:00
Status: Provisional - awaiting confirmation
This is only a provisional date at the moment, we'll be in touch once confirmed.

You have the same checker result as myself (also in N.Ireland) - My line is armoured (DIG) - There may be a duct in place, but they will check when they arrive, if not they will need to dig at the front. to bring the line in.

Hard to say reallly until they come and check it out.

I believe here its normal to not have ducts leading to an exterior wall, and they can be internal or like mine buried

Edited by BuckleZ (Mon 10-Jan-22 16:26:20)

Was that front ramp put in for wheelchair access by the previous occupant? It looks like it's bridged the damp proof course so you might want to get that looked at before it causes problems.

I remember when you posted about it, an interesting reply to your thread was

In reply to a post by Iniltous:

’turnkey’ is a phrase used by Openreach to signify that the work is to be done by a contractor rather than direct labour.

the ramp was built in from the start to comply with building control regs and has been passed

really looking forward to the full fibre package im currently in a house with ftc- max speed 35mbs so big step up!

our package
Broadband
Full Fibre 900
We'll be in touch to let you know your broadband service start date.

Your contract is for: 24 months, starting when your service starts.

How fast will it be?
900
Mbps
Your estimated download speed
110
Mbps
Your estimated upload speed

Your Stay Fast Guarantee
Your Stay Fast download speed is: 700Mbps

i like the word turnkey - it implies everything done by one entity with no fragmentation of the project

Edited by alanb2001 (Mon 10-Jan-22 17:12:31)

Certainly doesn’t come with the baggage or negative connotations that terms such as ‘subcontract’ or ‘outsource’ have….

i found this install solution on the BT community forum and it would be ideal for me

in my case the Openreach engineer used the existing copper cable in the master socket to pull in the fibre cable via underground duct from the street.

he tied the FFTP fibre (which was a dual cable having copper wire for phone) on the outside (street end) then gave a massive pull to the old copper wire on the master socket to pull in the new cable. It suited me to put the ONT near the master socket, but I guess the internal FTTP wiring could have been extended if needed.

So I have the master socket still operational. The copper cable (part of dual FTTP cable) is connected to the Master socket. The phone works through copper. The actual fibre part cable comes out of master socket (just below it actually) and to the ONT.

I found all this most elegant of solutions i.e. no drilling elsewhere. The whole FTTP installation was done in one visit. in about 30 minutes !!

question - in this case given previous replies will the CSP then be internal which is a lot neater and as you have all pointed out a csp is recommended as opposed to a direct connection to the ONT

Yes, the CSP would be mounted next to or in place of the existing master socket and the ONT located close by.

This all assumes that the cable will pull through the duct and it's not been cable clipped in place once it comes out the ground, or run round tight corners.

I will keep my fingers crossed for you but don't rule out a direct in ground cable (no ducting) from the footway to your property.

Edited by deleted (Mon 10-Jan-22 18:56:44)

yeah the method you suggested they wanted to try with my setup but I wanted the ONT/Router in a different location than the old master socket in hallway.

I believe even with DIG which mine was (but only partial i believe as there was a duct which ended about 2m away from the house) - Last 2m was DIG they can still pull the cable through behind the old copper? (Guessing as the armoured cable is quite thick) At least that's what they were asking to do until I said it wasn't a good place for the ONT.

They then just dug down about 2m away from the house down into the grass, and pulled the fibre in to there, micro duct then under grass, in through a vent and internal CSP.

More than likely it will be KN Circet who do your install, the guys I had here were excellent.

Edited by BuckleZ (Mon 10-Jan-22 19:23:10)

The example you provide is a rarity. It sounds very much as though there is no CSP fitted. It also sounds like they have fitted a field fit connector direct to the UG fibre.

Scenarios whereby the external ducting terminates in a wall void behind the NTE are exceptionally rare.

In reply to a post by BuckleZ:

I believe even with DIG which mine was (but only partial i believe as there was a duct which ended about 2m away from the house) - Last 2m was DIG they can still pull the cable through behind the old copper? (Guessing as the armoured cable is quite thick) At least that's what they were asking to do until I said it wasn't a good place for the ONT.

Armoured as we all know is clearly a lot stronger than CW1308 although there must be a lot of resistance when trying to pull it through but when they are asking you is it ok then I suspect the risk is down to you if it goes wrong.

Edited by deleted (Mon 10-Jan-22 22:13:07)

In reply to a post by dect:

In reply to a post by BuckleZ:

I believe even with DIG which mine was (but only partial i believe as there was a duct which ended about 2m away from the house) - Last 2m was DIG they can still pull the cable through behind the old copper? (Guessing as the armoured cable is quite thick) At least that's what they were asking to do until I said it wasn't a good place for the ONT.

Armoured as we all know is clearly a lot stronger than CW1308 although there must be a lot of resistance when trying to pull it through but when they are asking you is it ok then I suspect the risk is down to you if it goes wrong.

You should follow whatever procedure Openreach recommend - and then the risk is entirely down to them.

In reply to a post by candlerb:

In reply to a post by dect:

In reply to a post by BuckleZ:

I believe even with DIG which mine was (but only partial i believe as there was a duct which ended about 2m away from the house) - Last 2m was DIG they can still pull the cable through behind the old copper? (Guessing as the armoured cable is quite thick) At least that's what they were asking to do until I said it wasn't a good place for the ONT.

Armoured as we all know is clearly a lot stronger than CW1308 although there must be a lot of resistance when trying to pull it through but when they are asking you is it ok then I suspect the risk is down to you if it goes wrong.

You should follow whatever procedure Openreach recommend - and then the risk is entirely down to them.

Totally agree, in BuckleZ case it was a contractor not direct Openreach resource asking if it was OK to pull the DIG cable through (and we all know Openreach contractors don't neccessarily follow the high standards of most Openreach engineers) and the second point is it may work when pulling the smaller fibre cable behind a larger armoured cable but what happens if that fibre cable ever needs replacing in the future once it is the only DIG cable.

Same with my 2016-build. The master socket is in the lounge at the back of the house and the copper is terminated at the front of the house. When fibre came it had to be run from the CSP around the outside of the house.

The houses I looked at on fibre only developments in most cases had the fibre ducted into the house to the cupboard under the stairs.