Can I get any Fibre?

Good Afternoon,

I am looking to buy a new house and when I check on the BT Wholesale Broadband Checker I get this I have also checked with BT.com and only get ADSL speeds.

I checked IDNET and got the same, and the address is not covered by Virgin Media.

I even checked a local number here and got the same result.

I checked nearby address' all the same, any idea's?

Cancel your house buying! Not worth it if there is only ADSL available. That's pretty rubbish speed at the new house! I have checked your post code via openreach full fibre checker as it saying We're sorry, our fibre products aren't available for you yet.
We don’t have plans to upgrade your area yet to our fibre services, but you may still be able to get our Standard copper products - check with your provider of choice.

https://www.telecom-tariffs.co.uk/codelook.htm
https://www.telecom-tariffs.co.uk/codelook.htm?xid=9...
https://www.telecom-tariffs.co.uk/codelook.htm?xid=9...

Looks like you are SOL: there is no fibre on cabinet 64. Probably 4G/5G is your best bet.

It certainly looks like a bit of a broadband dead spot.

So about the same as me, I dropped my flaky ADSL and went 4g, line balancing two 4g routers (one Three and one EE gets me 120mbs down and 40mbs up. But you have to have coverage, best checked by using a mobile and PAYG sims. Beware, Three can get congested at peak periods so cheapest has its down sides.

Some of those addresses are showing as Openreach FTTP coming soon on the checker, so it depends how long you are prepared to wait, bearing in mind there is no guarantee that those plans won't change.

CJT

With an estate of newish houses it is a surprise that only ADSL is available. I wonder if it was Monastery land and there is some sort of Covenant on it. Or is is a private estate ( not adopted) and permission for an FTTC Cab was not given. ( Street lights seem to have big gaps so power may also have been an FTTC limiter.)

It seems a prime location for a retrospective FTTP rollout looking at the area BUT present usage will be so low that none of the automated tools will identify it as a demand. It would need a human with local knowledge to identify it and push it for investment. Likely a CFP would drive it to Openreach funded area. Or wait for the exchange area to be done for Cu withdrawal.

In reply to a post by jpm:

Some of those addresses are showing as Openreach FTTP coming soon on the checker, so it depends how long you are prepared to wait, bearing in mind there is no guarantee that those plans won't change.

Very true but it does work the other way too. My address was listed on the Openreach site as no plans then 4 weeks later, it was in. They do change their minds like the wind.......usually when an AltNet turns up

In reply to a post by jpm:

Some of those addresses are showing as Openreach FTTP coming soon on the checker, so it depends how long you are prepared to wait, bearing in mind there is no guarantee that those plans won't change.

I look up Openreach site and there isn't any Fibre planned?

Number 117, as an example, returns the FTTP coming soon result.

In reply to a post by jpm:

Number 117, as an example, returns the FTTP coming soon result.

I am sorry if Number 117 showing coming soon then why aren't the rest of other number should say coming soon as well. Openreach fibre checker is a hits and a miss!

You'd have to ask them. All I can report is what the checker says, which is that the group of houses numbered 109-123 are shown as being part of an FTTP rollout.

In reply to a post by jpm:

You'd have to ask them. All I can report is what the checker says, which is that the group of houses numbered 109-123 are shown as being part of an FTTP rollout.

Sound like Openreach selection some houses will get full fibre and other houses will not getting it seem unfair really.

In reply to a post by adslmax:

Cancel your house buying! Not worth it if there is only ADSL available. That's pretty rubbish speed at the new house! I have checked your post code via openreach full fibre checker as it saying We're sorry, our fibre products aren't available for you yet.
We don’t have plans to upgrade your area yet to our fibre services, but you may still be able to get our Standard copper products - check with your provider of choice.

Hi adslmax,

Whilst I do appreciate your reply, perhaps next time have a read over the post, I am looking, I haven't made a purchase, so I have nothing to cancel

Looks like the new builds are getting it, as you'd expect.

In reply to a post by candlerb:

https://www.telecom-tariffs.co.uk/codelook.htm
https://www.telecom-tariffs.co.uk/codelook.htm?xid=9...
https://www.telecom-tariffs.co.uk/codelook.htm?xid=9...

Looks like you are SOL: there is no fibre on cabinet 64. Probably 4G/5G is your best bet.

Thanks candlerb,

What is SOL?

In reply to a post by jpm:

Some of those addresses are showing as Openreach FTTP coming soon on the checker, so it depends how long you are prepared to wait, bearing in mind there is no guarantee that those plans won't change.

Short answer, I am not prepared to go back to ADSL at all.

In reply to a post by witchunt:

Looks like the new builds are getting it, as you'd expect.

How far away is the splitter?

In reply to a post by kitcat:

CJT

With an estate of newish houses it is a surprise that only ADSL is available. I wonder if it was Monastery land and there is some sort of Covenant on it. Or is is a private estate ( not adopted) and permission for an FTTC Cab was not given. ( Street lights seem to have big gaps so power may also have been an FTTC limiter.)

It seems a prime location for a retrospective FTTP rollout looking at the area BUT present usage will be so low that none of the automated tools will identify it as a demand. It would need a human with local knowledge to identify it and push it for investment. Likely a CFP would drive it to Openreach funded area. Or wait for the exchange area to be done for Cu withdrawal.

Hi kitcat,

Your reply piqued my interest, oddly there IS a Monastry nearby, whose number I cheekily used to check as well, so that may have a bearing on the sutiation.

In reply to a post by jpm:

You'd have to ask them. All I can report is what the checker says, which is that the group of houses numbered 109-123 are shown as being part of an FTTP rollout.

Hi jpm,

Sadly those are out of the range of the property I am looking at, so that's a bummber,

I will ask the owner (if they are there) what internet they get.

Thanks everyone for your replies.

I will ask the owner (assuming they are there tomorrow) what internet they get atm.

You can just plug it in using the address checker (rather than phone number).

In reply to a post by CJT:

In reply to a post by jpm:

You'd have to ask them. All I can report is what the checker says, which is that the group of houses numbered 109-123 are shown as being part of an FTTP rollout.

Hi jpm,

Sadly those are out of the range of the property I am looking at, so that's a bummber,

I will ask the owner (if they are there) what internet they get.

Roughly what sort of distance away?

In reply to a post by CJT:

In reply to a post by candlerb:

https://www.telecom-tariffs.co.uk/codelook.htm
https://www.telecom-tariffs.co.uk/codelook.htm?xid=9...
https://www.telecom-tariffs.co.uk/codelook.htm?xid=9...

Looks like you are SOL: there is no fibre on cabinet 64. Probably 4G/5G is your best bet.

Thanks candlerb,

What is SOL?

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=SOL

In reply to a post by candlerb:

In reply to a post by CJT:

In reply to a post by candlerb:

https://www.telecom-tariffs.co.uk/codelook.htm
https://www.telecom-tariffs.co.uk/codelook.htm?xid=9...
https://www.telecom-tariffs.co.uk/codelook.htm?xid=9...

Looks like you are SOL: there is no fibre on cabinet 64. Probably 4G/5G is your best bet.

Thanks candlerb,

What is SOL?

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=SOL

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

In reply to a post by CJT:

In reply to a post by jpm:

You'd have to ask them. All I can report is what the checker says, which is that the group of houses numbered 109-123 are shown as being part of an FTTP rollout.

Hi jpm,

Sadly those are out of the range of the property I am looking at, so that's a bummber,

I will ask the owner (if they are there) what internet they get.

Roughly what sort of distance away?

Hi Pheasant

I guess 50 - 100 yards.

There is a road to a close between the sets of properties.

Fairly close really.

You see the enabling fibre infrastructure that Openreach build to serve FTTP to these new build properties will be designed to dovetail into the long-term infrastructure for when the rest of the surrounding areas are eventually FTTP enabled;

This group of houses will have one or possibly several CBTs installed from which the drop cables are connected to each property. These CBTs are in turn connected to something called a splitter node.

Once that FTTP service to the new builds is completed, if you did not want to wait, possibly several years, for the 'native' rollout you can pay to have them install it 'on demand'. Usually very expensive, BUT the recently announced 'near-network' trial for FTTP on Demand (aka FOD or FTTPoD) - provides a much more favourable pricing model where IF the said FTTP infrastructure (namely either a splitter node or aggregation node) is within 500 metres of the property then the cheaper pricing applies.

Here is a real world example of this revised pricing (where a splitter was not required, just another CBT):
https://www.ispreview.co.uk/talk/threads/fttpod-near...

You would need to 'gamble' £250+VAT withe provider like Cerberus to actually find out if you are eligible. The risk is you may not be eligible and the cost is full fat FTTPoD, which usually isn't pretty at all.

The other (slim) possibility is that Openreach return sooner than they otherwise would have, of their own volition, to expand or infill FTTP coverage to the surrounding areas. Possibly.

The other final throw of the dice would be to approach Openreach, perhaps initially via the Availability Checker Enquiry and reading note that 'I cannot get fibre but my neighbours can' - again throw of the dice on this one...but you don't ask you don't get.

Edited by Pheasant (Fri 14-Jan-22 21:35:21)

In reply to a post by CJT:

Short answer, I am not prepared to go back to ADSL at all.

I think that rules out this property from your search, unless:

1. You are happy to use 4G/5G for your broadband, until such time as FTTP arrives (80% of UK due to be covered by Dec 2026).

Or:

2. You use the lack of broadband to get a discount of £10K-£15K from the price, pay for a leased line for 3 years, and hope that native FTTP arrives in that time (otherwise you'll continue to pay ~£300 per month thereafter)

You could also pay for FTTPoD, but there's a different risk: after waiting 3 months for a survey you may be told "no: plans are to deliver native FTTP in the next year". That means you don't have to pay anything (cool) but you could be without decent broadband for 1-2 years (not cool).

Note that FTTPoD orders are normally not accepted in non-FTTC areas. There's a "trial" starting 19th March 2022 where they *will* accept such orders; but it's only a trial, and it might not run past 31st May 2022. FTTPoD is also not accepted for MDUs (e.g. flats)

As long as the exchange has FTTPoD it does not matter that the address is within range of FTTC or not, as long as you can pay the higher fee due to distance an ADSL only address can get FTTPoD.

In reply to a post by kommando:

As long as the exchange has FTTPoD it does not matter that the address is within range of FTTC or not, as long as you can pay the higher fee due to distance an ADSL only address can get FTTPoD.

Sorry, but that is not true - not until the new trial comes into force in March anyway. FTTP on Demand is currently only available in FTTC cabinet areas.

Edit - Reference:

"FTTP on Demand lets you offer ultrafast speeds of up to 1Gbps to customers in Fibre to the Cabinet (FTTC) areas."
"If a customer is in a FTTC-exchange area, we can run a full fibre connection to their premises"
"Customers in FTTC areas can upgrade to even faster speeds"
(see also the fact sheet)

Edited by candlerb (Sat 15-Jan-22 10:06:00)

What is not true, if the exchange has FTTPoD listed then its an FTTC exchange anyway, there will be ADSL only addresses as they are too far away for FTTC and they will be able to order FTTPoD.

Currently I thought if the DSL checker didn't show speed values for VDSL (for a property) you was not eligible to order FTTPoD which I think is another way of saying what candlerb said

Edit: to add even if the serving cab is VDSL enabled

Edited by deleted (Sat 15-Jan-22 15:29:02)

I have an ADSL only address, exchange is FTTC enabled and my wholesale profile shows FTTPoD as available.

FTTP on Demand 330 50 -- Available

In reply to a post by kommando:

What is not true, if the exchange has FTTPoD listed then its an FTTC exchange anyway, there will be ADSL only addresses as they are too far away for FTTC and they will be able to order FTTPoD.

An *exchange area* can be enabled for FTTC and/or FTTPoD. However the OP's problem is that they are on a *cabinet* which is not FTTC-enabled at all. Such areas are excluded from FTTPoD (today). The same is true for EO lines - the user may be right next to the exchange and not able to order FTTPoD.

There's a separate issue around showing FTTC availability when a user is connected to an FTTC cabinet but is a very long way away - I don't know what the threshold is, if any. I know for sure that BT (retail) have been proactively migrating people from ADSL to FTTC even when the FTTC speeds are worse than ADSL - this has been reported by other forum users.

It use to be if you couldn't get FTTC you couldn't get FTTPoD, if your saying you can (I have no reason to disbelieve you) then things must be different now.

In reply to a post by kommando:

I have an ADSL only address, exchange is FTTC enabled and my wholesale profile shows FTTPoD as available.

Right, but is your *cabinet* FTTC-enabled? That's what controls the availability.

There is only one cabinet in the exchange and I am connected to it as is every line covered by the exchange that I can check.

Edited by kommando (Sat 15-Jan-22 18:15:27)

In reply to a post by kommando:

There is only one cabinet in the exchange and I am connected to it as is every line covered by the exchange that I can check.

In that case, you're connected to an FTTC-enabled cabinet (assuming there are other people who can get FTTC off the same cabinet).

You can check the details at codelook. Search for your exchange (locality) then select "all (N) fibre cabinets".

In reply to a post by kommando:

What is not true, if the exchange has FTTPoD listed then its an FTTC exchange anyway, there will be ADSL only addresses as they are too far away for FTTC and they will be able to order FTTPoD.

As mentioned by candlerb FTTPoD availability is entirely based on the serving cabinet having a fibre twin or not, regardless of whether you are too far from the cabinet to order FTTC.
If your cabinet doesn't offer FTTC then FTTPoD isn't an option.
Availability is being expanded beyond this requirement in March.

Multiple Dwelling Units are excluded from FTTPoD and I believe will remain excluded after March when availability is expanded.

Which is what I have already said, mine is an ADSL only line but I can get FTTPoD as the exchange is FTTC.

Corrected your post for you

In reply to a post by kommando:

Which is what I have already said, mine is an ADSL only line but I can get FTTPoD as the my cabinet exchange is FTTC enabled.

In reply to a post by kommando:

Which is what I have already said, mine is an ADSL only line but I can get FTTPoD as the exchange is FTTC.

It's nothing to do with whether the exchange is FTTC-enabled, it's whether you're in an FTTC-enabled cabinet area.

Thank you once again for everyone's replies.

To summerise I have decided the risk of not being able to get any FTTX services is too great to go ahead with the purchase, along with another reason.

I never thought I would be double checking the broadband speeds on properties I was looking at buying before, but given the present "home working" situation, it's something I have to take into consideration.

Should I start a new thread about a G.Fast query I have, or can I add it here?

TIA

A new thread will make it easier to find in future

In reply to a post by CJT:

I never thought I would be double checking the broadband speeds on properties I was looking at buying before, but given the present "home working" situation, it's something I have to take into consideration.

You're not the only one - and there is evidence property developers are starting to take notice.

In reply to a post by candlerb:

the exchange is FTTC-enabled

This does raise the question, what does a FTTC-enabled exchange actually mean? I would have said a headend exchange which differs from a FTTC-enabled exchange area served by a different headend exchange which is probably the case in this discussion.

Thanks candlerb,

I have made the new post here