Trooli Rollout?

Hi guys,

Just noticed Trooli have a number pf permits in the local area, although i was assuming Giganet were due to do it due to their checker saying its on the way.

Do you think we may be in for a couple of alt nets locally?

Quite likely: altnets are fighting over the scraps.

If you haven't found it already, have a look at https://bidb.uk/

We have a few permitted closures for Trooli too next week - I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

Looking at the coverage page on their website, it's showing 2 locations near us listed as "Coming Soon" - Hassocks and Wivelsfield Green. We're on the outskirts of both, but the permitted work is running right past our house and looking at one.network the permit reference has reference to Hassocks in it. So I'm thinking it's possible they're bundling us under Hassocks (again, fingers crossed) - either that, or they're running the cables to provide the network for hassocks and that's about it. Would feel like a missed opportunity though to just run the cables and not provide access to houses passed...

We're annoyingly on the side of the road that virgin didn't cable due to wayleave issues/cost per house to connect - although from previous experience with Virgin I'm somewhat happier with the thought of an altnet providing service. Our BT line runs across the road and I'm guessing that if Trooli do end up serving us, they'd run up the current BT pole and the fibre would then cross the road to get to us.

Has anyone found any way to get more details on Trooli's rollout? I've spoken to all the neighbours to get them to register their interest, so hopefully that flags up to them that we'd be an easy(maybe) win.

Ramble over...

Jonathan

In reply to a post by candlerb:

Quite likely: altnets are fighting over the scraps.

If you haven't found it already, have a look at https://bidb.uk/

What a great tool thanks!

Just punched in our postcode and it has random Trooli yellow lines dotted around but nothing that links it all together.

AH, just discovered that clicking on the line tells you what they are doing and it appears they are digging and clearing BT ducts.

Edited by Alucidnation (Fri 25-Mar-22 18:09:00)

Trooli tend to do PIA installation where they can - at least they did round here. In my village the only works that show up on bidb are where they have problems, like blocked ducts that need excavating. Where they can just pull cable and don't have to dig or close anything, they don't need council licences so don't show up.

Trooli have recently put or are going to put up cablinets in Hassocks, Hurst and Newick from what I have spotted.

They are currently on the A272 heading to Haywards Heath and then on to Burgess Hill, Wivelsfield and Hassocks / Hurst. (Be careful if you walk down the 272 as they have left manhole covers off.)

F&W / Hey are also active in Burgess Hill and Giganet in Hurst.

Edited by FibreBubble (Fri 25-Mar-22 17:19:22)

What is a PIA installation?

In reply to a post by Alucidnation:

What is a PIA installation?

https://www.openreach.co.uk/cpportal/products/passiv...

Thanks.




Just out of interest, is it common for two or maybe more altnets to cable up an area?

We have always been down for Giganet since we had a flyer through the door over a year ago bit nothing ever happened, so i was just surprised to see another provider seemingly to actually make a start and tread on their toes.

In reply to a post by Alucidnation:

Just out of interest, is it common for two or maybe more altnets to cable up an area?

I think it depends on how they do their maths and accounting guesses on a return on investment. Here I know we have toob coming (from their website) but no sign visually and no flyers etc. Only ancient (30+ year old) Virgin Media coax with constant failures, or slow FTTC. But then this is a small town.

Many of the plucky small altnets are actually owned by monster sized investment banks or oil rich sovereign wealth funds. So they are dripping in money and not too bothered about overbuilding. They are having a punt on very cheap access to BT's duct and pole assets.

Edited by FibreBubble (Fri 25-Mar-22 21:16:21)

In reply to a post by FibreBubble:

Many of the plucky small altnets are actually owned by monster sized investment banks or oil rich sovereign wealth funds. So they are dripping in money and not too bothered about overbuilding. They are having a punt on very cheap access to BT's duct and pole assets.

Could you explain the criteria you're using to state the access to the passive infrastructure is 'very cheap'? I believe it's at a similar level to the same products elsewhere.

On dripping with money, etc, of course altnet build is being done with an eye on being potentially acquired. You didn't think CityFibre and VMO2 were planning on hitting their coverage ambitions just by building their own networks, did you?

In reply to a post by CarlTSpeak:

Could you explain the criteria you're using to state the access to the passive infrastructure is 'very cheap'? I believe it's at a similar level to the same products elsewhere.

Openreach PIA (duct and pole access) is very cheap when compared to the cost of digging your own ducts or installing your own poles.

What do you mean by "the same products elsewhere"? There isn't really anything that competes with Openreach PIA in the UK. Or are you comparing with other countries - if so which ones?

In reply to a post by CarlTSpeak:

On dripping with money, etc, of course altnet build is being done with an eye on being potentially acquired. You didn't think CityFibre and VMO2 were planning on hitting their coverage ambitions just by building their own networks, did you?

Certainly that's how Cityfibre are building today, with a few exceptions (e.g. acquisition of KCOM national backbone).

The problem with buying up a hodge-podge of tiny altnets is that they are all built to different standards and with different equipment, making them very hard to integrate into a unified wholesale offering.

I expect eventually there will be a fire-sale, and someone will buy up the assets and try to do something with them, but both CF and VMO2 need to be building stuff *now*, not waiting for the bubble to burst.

In reply to a post by candlerb:

The problem with buying up a hodge-podge of tiny altnets is that they are all built to different standards and with different equipment, making them very hard to integrate into a unified wholesale offering.

History seems to be repeating itself, with the 1990s cable networks.

In reply to a post by FibreBubble:

F&W / Hey are also active in Burgess Hill and Giganet in Hurst.

Box Broadband spotted in Hassocks now. So Trooli are now facing competing builds of F&W, Giganet, Box as well as Openreach and Virgin and the council's vastly expensively built vanity broadband project all within a couple of miles.

Trooli are also seeing overbuild in East Sussex with, for example, Lightning in Heathfield.

Edited by FibreBubble (Sat 26-Mar-22 09:58:11)

According to one.network we've got Trooli laying in Hythe Hampshire (and surrounding area) and I've just seen a giganet cabinet going in too. Looks like Trooli and giganet are either fighting each other or working together?.

Fighting I would guess. Giganet are owned by the same monster investment bankers as Jurasic, Swish and Vorboss but from what I can make of it Trooli is backed by a different monster investment bank.

There must be a lot of consolidation coming! Oh well i won't complain if it means I can finally get fibre.

From what I see, Trooli are pretty much exclusively PIA and so have less to lose than those providers who are overbuilding by digging up a lot of Her Majesty's tarmac.

But take-up appears poor for all the players. Many who are having to sell their 'premium' product at basement prices. So this game could all be about who's monster investment bank bottles first.

Edited by FibreBubble (Mon 28-Mar-22 20:18:21)

In reply to a post by FibreBubble:

But take-up appears poor for all the players. Many who are having to sell their 'premium' product at basement prices. So this game could all be about who's monster investment bank bottles first.

It's mainly people on this forum who want a "premium" product. Almost everybody else wants as cheap as possible.

The altnets have the advantage that they are not constrained by Ofcom-regulated pricing, which means they can undercut Openreach; that's the only way to get scale and payback.

If they can offer an FTTP product which undercuts other players' FTTC by 50p per month, they will gain a substantial number of customers. If they charge a premium, then most people who already get a half-reasonable FTTC service (by which I mean 30M+) will stick with it, seeing no reason to pay more.

I suspect even Openreach and OR-based ISPs will have trouble moving people from FTTC to FTTP, given that the regulated wholesale pricing is a pound or so more for FTTP than FTTC. Maybe the ISPs will swallow it, on the basis of (hopefully) reduced support costs of dealing with dodgy lines.

In reply to a post by candlerb:

Maybe the ISPs will swallow it, on the basis of (hopefully) reduced support costs of dealing with dodgy lines.

Equinox pricing and rebates for the big boys, may also play a part in all this.

It may, but ISPs with many users on 40/10 FTTC will still find the wholesale price goes up on migration to the corresponding FTTP product. So it depends how much success they have in upselling to higher bandwidth at the same time.

I reckon that the majority of users don't want to pay for extra bandwidth: if they can browse the web and they can watch an SD Netflix stream without stuttering, and pay £22 per month for this, they're happy.

Thanks Fibrebubble. I went for a little drive to scope out the cabinets but couldn't see anything just yet - maybe walking would be the trick, although a risk of falling trick albeit!

The contractors started yesterday with some roadworks/traffic lights on our road - from speaking to the friendly contractor and what I can see on BIDB/one.network they are clearing ducts and junction boxes ahead of laying cables. No sign of when they'll be laying such cables but it feels like progress at least!

In terms of them connecting back into a backbone network, I know that Mid Sussex have a network that they got some funding for - although nothing to be seen as to what benefit this brings us yet. Would it be likely that they are connecting back into that? I don't see Trooli listed as a member on the cni.coop website...

Trooli appear to be bringing their service to Mid Sussex using PIA routes from Uckfield.

I don't see the council's vastly expensive project doing much other than separating taxpayers from their money. They are bringing their broadband service to areas that now have multiple operators who can PIA for buttions.

I'd guess it's a private deployment of a few hundred gigabit leased lines, and won't affect the availability of FTTP at all.

I think the council have far more lofty ambitions

https://www.midsussex.gov.uk/about-us/press-releases...

https://www.coast2capital.org.uk/projects/burgess-hi...

https://www.coast2capital.org.uk/projects/converged-...

Thing that puzzles me about Trooli is that they don't seem to advertise or do any marketing.

I became aware of them about 6 months ago, when I saw a couple of blokes pulling fibre between 2 manholes just around the corner. As an old techie, I can recognise a fibre optic cable when I see one, but I think the average passer-by, if she paid any attention to them at all, would assume they were OR engineers.

I registered interest with Trooli, and early Feb I got a phone call to say that they would be ready to install in April. I asked why there hadn't been any publicity, and the guy sort of shrugged and said folks see our vans around and get in touch. All the installers I have seen have been subbies in plain white vans; I have never seen a Trooli badged van here, and as I'm retired I'm around and about quite a bit in the daytime. CBT boxes or similar labelled Trooli have appeared on many of the poles in the area, but I'm sure only a handful of people locally are aware of them or realise what they are.

Addresses all around are showing as "available on your street" on their website. It's nearly April now, but there have been no leaflet drops, mailshots, ads in the local press nor anything that I've ever seen. Because I wasn't completely happy with their Ts and Cs, I said I'd think about it, but they haven't followed up that initial phone call. This doesn't seem to me to be a good way to generate a return on investment.

Thanks Fibrebubble - I'd spotted those maps of the mid sussex fibre plan but they seemed pretty loose/lacking any substance of what's going to be delivered and when - they're also very low res and from the looks of it, they're running through fields between Ditchling/Hassocks and Burgess Hill. A bit strange as OR have recently run fibre along parts of the B2112 between Ditchling and the Folders lane roundabout. The mid sussex yellow line seems to be running in a field parallel to that road which I find hard to believe - especially having walked my dog through there and not seen any signs of infrastructure above ground!! I've even been trying to get info via our local councilors but they've not been particularly in the know either!

My bets are with Trooli at the moment so let's see whether they end up cabling us up! We are currently using EE 4G which isn't too bad - but not the most reliable and the ping isn't great, so browsing is pretty sluggish even with half decent bandwidth.

Funnily enough Thaumaturge - I came to know about Trooli from an advert while meaninglessly scrolling instagram. They were advertising for Hassocks which isn't exactly where I am but that got my to start digging around. I'm surprised they wouldn't be marketing more though if they actually have the infrastructure in place for you and are going live!

If they are advertising on social media then I wouldn't have seen it, 'cos I don't do any social media at all. I would think they have somewhat misjudged this area too.

Just recently noticed another area near our FTTC cabinet that they have marked for duct clearance, and it is a cabinet that serves a fairly big area of homes.

Well, today they are pulling cables up our road between various chambers as I know the ducts are clear.

They do seem to be spending a lot of time in one of the main ones and seem to be splicing.

I’ve also noticed a lot more permits being granted for egging and duct clearing in nearby roads, one of which is from 6pm to 11am!

As someone else has said, all subbies in plain white vans and not marketing, or any hint of them installing in our post code on their website.

I’ve registered interest so we’ll see what happens!

We've seen a similar pattern in our local area but I wouldn't hold your breath. From what I've seen on the ground so far there seems to be the following phases -

1. Install head end cabs and aggregation cabs (month 1)
2. Pull backbone / attach pole equipment (half way up) (month 2,3)
3. Start to join up backbone, poles etc (month 4,5)
4. Snagging (month 4,5,6)
5. Light it up (month 6+)

As I understand it they don't do any local marketing until the fibre is due to be lit. At that point you should get a leaflet drop through specific houses that can receive the service. Round here you can have a road of houses but only pockets of specific houses coming off enabled poles will be able to get it hence it's not just a blast everyone approach.

I've also noticed the numbers of passed/enabled houses decreasing as the rollout progresses and they find issues with enabling them. Our local rollout has dropped from 244 to 161 properties.

Basically, until you have a lit service, nothing is guaranteed!

At least you have Virgin Media, where I am it is just FFTC.

Toob has my post code as "In Build" - has been for at least a year, still no sign of it being available or even of any work being done to get it installed.

In reply to a post by Squirrel:

At least you have Virgin Media, where I am it is just FFTC.

I could go back to Openreach FTTC/VDSL, but the upload speeds dropped to 2Mbps which wasn’t enough for my needs. I also have EE 4G running between 150 and 200 Mbps, which is possibly an option (although collapses in a power cut).

Toob has my post code as "In Build" - has been for at least a year, still no sign of it being available or even of any work being done to get it installed.

Sounds like my parents whom are waiting on CityFibre. Toob has started work in my town and there is fibre being run into Openreach ducts, but they are 5 miles from me, and may never get to my part.

I live in Seaford, East Sussex.
I'd noticed some Trooli vans around for a while so thought I'd register interest on their website.

A couple of weeks later I received a call to say that Trooli Fibre was now available on my street and would I like to sign up, I declined at the time thinking I would look at reviews and prices etc.

We have Plusnet FTTC and get around 73/18 Mbps so not bad at all but with my partner and I now working at home all the time and downloading software and moving large files it seemed a good idea to sign up with Trooli for the faster speeds.

Apart from a small amount of ducting just outside the property being blocked the install was very quick, in fact the whole process has been faultless taking a few weeks.
Speeds are great (we have the Business 500 package) and I can't fault them.

Glad to hear you're happy with the service. What sort of ping do you get out of interest?

No visible progress here on their rollout but various workmen clearing ducts and permits on various roads in the area. Interestingly, Openreach started running fibre through the ducts here a week or so ago - spoke to one of the engineers who said the job was under the council, so it may be related to the Mid Sussex fibre/coast to capital project... Funny that Trooli had done the duct checking and clearing and then Openreach swoop in and start laying their own! Just hoping that OR haven't filled up any remaining capacity in the ducts with their cabling (it did look quite cramped when I had a nose)...

Just thought i would check the bid and to see progress and although there are still some duct clearing works etc planned for the locality, it stated that Trooli is live.

Clicked on the link and put in my postcode etc and it is now available to order for my address aparently.

Currently showing a 10 week lead time from order.

In reply to a post by jawn22:

Glad to hear you're happy with the service. What sort of ping do you get out of interest?

No visible progress here on their rollout but various workmen clearing ducts and permits on various roads in the area. Interestingly, Openreach started running fibre through the ducts here a week or so ago - spoke to one of the engineers who said the job was under the council, so it may be related to the Mid Sussex fibre/coast to capital project... Funny that Trooli had done the duct checking and clearing and then Openreach swoop in and start laying their own! Just hoping that OR haven't filled up any remaining capacity in the ducts with their cabling (it did look quite cramped when I had a nose)...

Yes, heaven forbid that Openreach put Openreach cables into Openreach ducts

Could this be also why theres been installation of fibre down a lot of the main roads around Hassocks? There seems to be a lot of activity going on with Infinity Fibre group and its hard to work out what exactly they're doing or what timescale.

Yes, Trooli and Box Broadband are digging in that area.

As a small update, just browsing on the BID, and clicked on the Giganet tab and noticed no activity and Trooli activity has dropped to one small set of works on the way to the exchange.

Whilst on the Giganet site, i pumped in my details to see if there were any updates as they did do a leaflet drop around a year ago, and on their page it shows them t the build phase. Once I registered my interest i get an email that says "Our full fibre home broadband is not yet available at the address you checked. But the good news is that you do live in a location that we’ll soon be connecting."

So, does that mean they would be using the Trooli infrastructure? Reason i ask is that i havent seen any other activity in the area, and there has been nothing ever showing on the BID for them, although the next town over seems to have a few roadworks booked by them.

Giganet use Openreach and CityFibre that I know of

I'm not aware of Giganet using Trooli or even aware of Trooli Wholesaling their networ

Correct. Giganet are also rolling out their own infra in some areas (Winchester at the moment).

Trooli seems to come in fits and starts - lots of activity, then goes quiet, then some duct clearing, then quiet. From what I understand you won't get any advertising or a leaflet drop until the service is actually live and ready to order. Where I am they've been building for 7 months + and still not live... so don't hold your breath!

Took a stroll out last night and saw what i can only describe as maybe 'unfinished' work.

Connector blocks barely 6ft from the ground with the fibre basically just hanging out the bottom and the rest of the coil just flapping around in the breeze and wouldnt take much for someone to yank them off.

Appalling workmanship!

The poor standard of Trooli work was discussed here back in April

https://forums.thinkbroadband.com/fibre/t/4705556-re...

Ok,it seems like they have been around and tidied everything up so at least they may have improved slightly!

Anyway, does anyone have any suggestions for a decent gigabit capable modem i can use with my Ubiquiti Edgerouter?

Don’t you just need a router that speaks PPPoE to connect into the Trooli supplied Adrian 621 ONT?

My thoughts too.

Ah ok, the ER has a PPPoE setting but i assumed i would need a modem similar to VDSL.

New to this

In reply to a post by Alucidnation:

Ah ok, the ER has a PPPoE setting but i assumed i would need a modem similar to VDSL. New to this

The good thing about FTTP is that the termination is active with Ethernet presentation... think of this as the modern day equivalent of the old Huawei HG612 box that we used with VDSL/FTTC, and attach your PPPoE capable hardware by Ethernet.

Thankfully with PON there isn't a "wires only" possible.

Edited by jchamier (Sat 20-Aug-22 16:41:24)

Ok, so just got to the engineers menu, however i cannot find the user login details for the PPPoE login.

Model is a Technicolor DGA4134NLK

Although i guess these details wont appear until the engineer has set me up and i am live?

Just trying to get ahead of the game now.

Edited by Alucidnation (Sun 21-Aug-22 12:50:30)

So install date came, installer couldn't get through the duct in the road. Civils booked for this week but no show. After speaking with CS, turns out their contractor isn't going to do anymore for them in this area so are trying to find another to take over.

Not sure if i should be surprised or not.

Edited by Alucidnation (Thu 15-Sep-22 17:47:42)

I'm now live on 300/100 (Bridge, Canterbury). I look proudly down at my beautiful expensive ducting

Worth every penny!

Fibre now in, with guy coming tomorrow to liven us up.

Hopefully!

Or not as the case may be.

Was supposed to be here this morning but was a no show and after getting a call from their bookings team, i was told he was taken ill.

Yeah of course he was, probably more down to the fact that they have no local installers and they have to drive around 3 hours to get here and as it turned out the weather was bad today so probably didn't fancy the drive.

What a shower of s**t.