Contract length issue

Hi All, need some advice regarding contract length with preordered fttp.
Whilst I understand this section is for fttp, I would like people's comments regarding their contract lengths and experiences.
The isp in question had my preorder waiting for wayleave, but it didn't need it, so just sat in limbo for a month, it only got anywhere because another salesman knocked and queried the preorder with me, took it off wayleave on the system and the preorder process started.
There following day sales rep called to collect missing details and said I would get another email once the system generates it. The email arrived shortly after for direct debit info etc, this was all filled in as requested and sent back. The confirmation of preorder arrived shortly after but on reading the contract length had risen to 30 months.
When I originally ordered and still on their website it clearly states a 24 month contract.
I contacted the sales lady she said that because we get 6 months free, the contract does not start until we begin paying for the service.
Anyone else had anything like this?
To me a 24 month contract is just that, 24 months, and not a 24 month paid contract with 6 months free but total contract of 30 months?
Got to say this feels very underhand and feel like cancelling the preorder straight away.
Cheers for any comments
Lee

Any promotional period (free, half price, discounted etc.) is typically included within the period stated on the contract and not added to it. The contract commences on the date the service commences.

Exactly what I thought.
I'm going to thoroughly read co traxt details now, see what it says in there.
Thankyou

Ofcom state that consumer contracts should be no longer than 24 months

https://www.ofcom.org.uk/phones-telecoms-and-interne...

"As a consumer (separate rules apply for businesses) the contract for your telecommunication service should be no longer than 24 months. Some contracts for mobile handsets may be longer so its important to check the terms for the handset as well as the airtime."

Any service that is sold as 24 months with 6 months free I would expect to be a 24 month contract, with the final 18 of those paid for.

I'm reading through the t and c's now, so far no mention of length of minimum contract, just mentions minimum term a few times.

Good Morning Lee

Hope you are well.

It is in fact a 24 month contract but the 30 months takes into account your deferral of 6 months.

Hope that is ok?

Any problems please let me know.

Kind Regards

Is it business broadband or residential broadband?

I was always under the impression that residential broadband contracts were limited to 24 months, unless that has recently changed.

Any 6 months free would still form part of the contract period.

Edit: I see jpm beat me to the punch.

Edited by j0hn83 (Thu 26-May-22 11:56:08)

Residential, sorry.

No mention of it at all in " Sent terms and conditions" but found on the website under "6 month Defferal" terms and conditions.
Wording seems to be the big thing here being "Defferal".

What is Broadband 6 Month Deferral?

We want to give everyone the opportunity to benefit from Be Fibre products and services but understand that many people may be locked into contracts with other providers. We are therefore offering you the opportunity to take our services free of charge for up to 6 months.

 
What do I need to do?

In order to benefit from up to 6 months’ deferral, we simply need you to provide evidence of the time remaining on your existing broadband deal which must be written confirmation from your current provider1.

We can then sign you up to our services on the offer of your choice free of charge for the time remaining on your current contract up to a maximum of 6 months so that you avoid paying an early termination fee to your current provider.

 
When does my contract start?

Your contract will start on the day you first begin to receive services. The services will be provided free of charge for the remainder of your contract with your current provider for up to a maximum of 6 months. You will then start paying for your services from BeFibre and will be subject to a further 24-month term.

Your total contract length will be your deferral period plus 24 months.

 
Can I end my contract early?

If you do want to end your contract this is subject to the terms of Our Agreement and there is likely to be an early termination charge.

For the avoidance of doubt, your contract may be terminated in line with Our Agreement particularly in line with paragraph 14 and paragraph 3.1 of our standard terms and conditions. The 14-day cooling off period referred to in paragraph 3.1 of our standard terms and conditions begins on the first day of your contract.

I'm going to contact OFCOM and ask if this is acceptable.

Still seems a very underhand way of increasing contract term, to 30 months with 6 months free, 6 months defferal t and c says contract starts when service starts, ie 6 months defferal plus 24 months contract lol
what a joke
Lee

I think they are fine - you could always opt-out of the 6 months deferral and then you have a standard 24 month contract.

Could be an idea lol
Just tweeted the other 2 Alt ISPs installing to see what there "Offers " mean, the both offer 3 months free on either 12 or 24 month contract, just sked if that means 12 or 24 or 15 or 27 months lol

The key word there, in legal terms is "Should" - it is not "MUST". If it said "must" then contacts would be limited to 24 months, but with "should" it is advisory and Ofcom could not enforce it.

This approach is wrong. That document does not provide the valid definition of the minimum part of the contract. It is the General Conditions of Entitlement (to operate) issued by Ofcom under the Communications Act 2003.

These state that the Fixed Commitment Period "shall not" be more than 24 months. (This is for consumer protection, to ensure that users aren't prevented from switching to another provider for too long.)

The General Conditions also contain a definition of the Fixed Commitment Period.

Leaving aside the legalities, I think it is fair for the company to expect 24 months of payment. That is presumably what they want to cover the cost of the installation. The free period is generously provided before the contract would otherwise begin, to save the user from early termination fees.

Leaving aside the legalities, I think it is fair for the company to expect 24 months of payment.

That’s far enough in itself, which is why the vast majority of companies build the promotional period into their 2 year contract.

This however is not a 2 year contract, it’s a 2.5 year contract. The question then is it fair to tie the consumer into a 2.5 year contract and is it fair to promote it as a 2 year contract but the actual reality is it’s 2.5 years.

Isn’t that a slightly dubious way of doing business in your view? Why not just say 2.5 year (30 month) contract from the outset and be done with it…

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

Leaving aside the legalities, I think it is fair for the company to expect 24 months of payment.

That’s far enough in itself, which is why the vast majority of companies build the promotional period into their 2 year contract.

This however is not a 2 year contract, it’s a 2.5 year contract. The question then is it fair to tie the consumer into a 2.5 year contract and is it fair to promote it as a 2 year contract but the actual reality is it’s 2.5 years.

Isn’t that a slightly dubious way of doing business in your view? Why not just say 2.5 year (30 month) contract from the outset and be done with it…

Because its not a fixed 30 month contract, the 6 months is up to 6 months and requires you to prove your still in contract. If you only had 1 month contract remaining it'd be a 25 month contract.

If it was just a case of them advertising and giving 6 months free to everyone I'd agree its dubious

To be fair I hadn’t read Lee’s update post with Be terms above. Sure it’s not a fixed contract but it’s not exactly a 24 month contract in the strict sense either.

It’s a 24 month plus deferral contract. Where the deferral could be zero - but with no discounts

In reply to a post by Thinker27:

These state that the Fixed Commitment Period "shall not" be more than 24 months. (This is for consumer protection, to ensure that users aren't prevented from switching to another provider for too long.)

Even "shall not" does not preclude them from making it longer if they wish, only words such as "must not" or "can not" indicate a compulsory requirement.

I'm not defending them in any way, just pointing out that they are not compelled to offer a 24 month maximum. I do agree though that it is reasonable for them to expect a specifc amount of revenue, in this case 24 months, to cover their costs.

In reply to a post by MHC:

Even "shall not" does not preclude them from making it longer if they wish, only words such as "must not" or "can not" indicate a compulsory requirement.

I disagree. "Shall not" = "will not".

As I understand it, if the OP wants to exit the contract right now they can, because they haven't signed it and the service hasn't started.

If they want to get Ofcom involved, then it's on the basis that "this retail ISP offered me a 30 month contract, and they're only supposed to offer me 24 months". What resolution are they looking for? That the ISP will offer them a 6+18 month contract instead? Maybe they'll get it, but is it really worth the hassle?

The service provider will say that they tied the customer to a 2 year contract, and just offers them an additional period of free service for the overlap period with their previous ISP. (Although it sounds like the wording of the contract explicitly says 30 months total contract period).

If Ofcom says they can't do that, then they could just withdraw the overlap free period, so the OP has to pay for all 24 months - even those which overlap with the existing ISP service. That doesn't sound like a good outcome to me.

Hi all, thanks for all the replies.
To further add to the issue one other Alt ISP responded and their offer is 3 months free, so 3 months free and pay for 9 months for the 12 month contract.
It seems OP Alt ISP use the word " defferal" to get around this.
Whilst I understand costs for the Isp's, why not be straight with people, I can imagine alot of people will sign up then try to leave after 2 years then puzzled why they are still under contract for another 6 months lol yes Isp's need to recoup money for installation and routers etc but the free 6 months is therefore not free if you need to add 6 months to a 24 month contract???
Lee

So by having this "deferral" period of up to 6 months they are effectively locking you into a contract ready for when your existing contract comes to an end, this is different from 6 months free as you will be still paying your other provider during that deferral period. For me there would be no real incentive to do this unless the 6 months deferral was part of the 24 month contract and not added on.

The intention is that if you're in contract with an ADSL provider you can sign up with these guys and start enjoying a usable internet service without paying two bills at the same time. It gives their sales team an answer for "sorry I'd love to sign up but I have four months left with my current provider".

B4rn do a similar thing - see https://b4rn.org.uk/connectplus/

I see it as a good thing, it's completely optional and you don't have to take it. If you've seen some advertising that claims it's "24 month contract and six months free" then that might be one for the ASA rather than Ofcom, but their website is clear about what the deferral is and how it works.

In reply to a post by highlander317:

Whilst I understand costs for the Isp's, why not be straight with people, I can imagine alot of people will sign up then try to leave after 2 years then puzzled why they are still under contract for another 6 months lol yes Isp's need to recoup money for installation and routers etc but the free 6 months is therefore not free if you need to add 6 months to a 24 month contract???
Lee

It is free - you receive (up to) 30 months of service and are billed for 24 of them.

Edited by jpm (Fri 27-May-22 15:22:06)

Each to their own

For me to go with an alt net I would be looking for an incentive of either a discounted monthly rate or a number of months for free but this is neither as with this option you are paying an ISP during that up to 6 month crossover period so seeing no extra cash in your pocket.

Is the incentive not the fact that it is a significantly better connection that you can get straight away without having to pay 2 suppliers? Many people I suspect would love to take that offer. If the buyer wanted the connection straight away but don't want to be tied in for 30 months then they can just take the 24 month contract and pay 2 lots of broadband at once - buyers choice.

In reply to a post by ian72:

they can just take the 24 month contract and pay 2 lots of broadband at once - buyers choice.

Or wait for their existing contract to be completed then haggle for a discount on a 24 month contract. The question is how much does BeFibre need new customers? I know we live in a society that no one wants to wait for anything anymore but that puts people in a far worse position when trying to get the best possible deal.

My current Isp is plusnet, the contract ended 9th May, so I am stuck without a contract at present, Be Fibre hope to be installed within 3 months. I tried with plusnet to get a better rate than "out of contract" but did't budge.
Think I will look at the 3 Alt Isp's installing, work out the costs, vs speeds and contract lengths and go from there, like I have already mentioned 1 Alt Isp includes 3 months free in a 12 month contract, no extra months added.
Lee

Being out of contract is generally a good thing. It gives you flexibility and avoids any early termination charges. The only benefit to being in contract is if you got a discount for the contract period.

You have 3 altnets available to you?

Supposedly it would be 4, 3 Alt be fibre, lit fibre and lightspeed, with Openreach as well at some point.

In reply to a post by highlander317:

Supposedly it would be 4, 3 Alt be fibre, lit fibre and lightspeed, with Openreach as well at some point.

So all of these are overbuilding on your street in Clacton?

Yes

In reply to a post by highlander317:

Yes

That will give you a good bargaining chip when haggling between the providers

If only lol
So far they each seem to have different areas of the town, be fibre are the first with pre order available, lit fibre and lightspeed busy in the backgroud, wasn't looking at going with BT anyhow.
The thing is working out all the offers against speed and contract length, just a shame my plusnet contract ended when it did, but I know the ball is in my court when getting better offers, might cancel the pre order and just wait til at least 2 Alt's are up and running.

I don't think so, it says in the terms and conditions that contract starts from start of service so 6 months free plus 24 months. Lol
I'm going to make a few calls Monday morning to see where all this stands. One does what seems to be the obvious ie 3 months free pay for 9 months on a 12 month contract, yet another does this lol

If I sign up to a 24 month contract, for anything phone, satellite TV even a HP agreement, if its for 24 months its 24 months, if you get one months free, your contract still lasts 24 months not 25 months.
Be good if some existing BE fibre knew they were getting into this or are unaware there's an extra 6 months added to the term.

Well until its signed a contract doesnt mean anything, but dont know what you can do.

I think the contract situation in the UK the way its been handled by ofcom is quite bad now, a very easy way to encourage shorter contracts is to forbid price rises during contract and simply say to the companies, if you want to keep hitting your customers with inflation busting rises, then all you need to do is shorten the contracts. But instead they caved.

Ofcom did tell me in an email they supposedly have an agreement with ISPs that at least one FTTP package should be no longer than 12 months, but when I pointed out to them I found at least a few isps not doing that they stopped communicating.

UPDATE:
Just spoke to OfCom regarding the OP contract and they are of the same opinion and under regaulations that the contract should be max of 24 months regardless of discounts and offers. The agent even agreed that a contract of 24 months and 6 months free is pay for 18 get 6 free.

I then called BeFibre to query this, the service agent found this odd as sellers are trained to explain this at the the door, ( typical door to door sales person then), yet seemed panicked when I mentioned OfCom and that at no point was I told this, I only found out after reading confirmation email, and then searching as to why 30 months. She tried to explain that the 6 months defferal was to pay for existing contract to be cancelled and the paid off if need be, but this went down like a lead weight when I explained I am out of contract. This has now been escalated higher within BeFibre, and am waiting on a phone call from above lol
I'm going to wait a few days for this phone, if no response I will cancel the pre order, just means I am stuck pay plusnet top dollar for broadband and line rental.

UPDATE AGAIN:
Shock horror, just got off the phone from one of the bosses at BeFibre, who did confirm that the contract total length should be 24 months with 6 months free ie pay for 18 get 6 months free = 24 months.
He believes this was an error somewhere along the line and was keen to end the call to contact people to fix the issue. He agreed to reissue a order confirmation with the corrected details in place.
He did admit that the contract would have automatically ended after 24 months anyway, but wouldn't like my chances arguing that one after 24 months of using the service without issues, hopefully.

To aid new customers that have signed up to BeFibre I will add a post in the Other Providers (without dedicated forums) part of the forum to explain to people to check their contracts and help others.

Thankfully an end to this, just goes to show the imfortance of reading contracts and emails properly

Lee

Glad you persisted with this Lee, well done

Thanks Lee for the update.

It’s an interesting thread for other folks that in future find themselves in a similar situation.

Update again

Sorry guys and Ladies,

Just had a phone call from Be Fibre, I tried calling this morning, to find out if there was any further updates due to my pre order being cancelled due to the contract length error.
The guy I spoke to said that the issue had be escalated to the top and meetings with OfCom, to get the contract length issue confirmed one way or another, clearly common sense has won.
He mentioned they are now in the process of contacting all customers affected by this contract length and resolving it.
Clearly this is going to cost the ISP a lot in lost revenue, but they seemed to appreciate me bringing the matter to them in the first place, might have saved them from legal issues down the road, maybe?

Lee