Alarm system and voIP woes

I'm with TalkTalk on FTTC and using them for landline service. Their postcode checker showed no option to keep your landline with future fibre (FTTP) so was resigned to switching at the end of my contract to BT or Vodaphone who do allow you to keep the landline using voIP. I decided to have an online chat with them anyway and was pleasantly surprised when told that their packages do alllow you to keep your landline over voIP. Each package has a data (no landline) or a voIP option.
So I decided to buy Future Fibre 150 voIP.
Now, I have a home alarm system - a Texecom Veritas 8 installed around 2002. There is the main alarm box and a separate speech dialler box. The speech dialler is connected by two wires to the master socket. You setup contacts, family friends etc. using the speech dialler. When the alarm sounds, the speech dialler rings these contacts. It is an add-on.
I agreed with the CSRep to buy Future Fibre 150 with voIP. The CSRep asked me "Digital Voice doesn't currently support equipment such as care alarms,personal alarms or security alarms that use the home phone connection. Can I ask if you currently have any such equipment connected to your home phone service?". I said Yes, described the speech dialler, was willing to have it disconnected, told her no other part of the alarm used the phone connection but she wrote "I can confirm that the alarm will not work on this full fibre package" and would not process my request to upgrade.

Is there some other fundamental underlying non-compatibility with the light from the Fibre strands and the electonics in an alarm system that I am missing here?
Thoughts?

Thanks.

if you were willing to disconnect then there should be no problem. I cannot understand why they refused an upgrade.

The voice dialler might have worked over a VoIP connection with a suitable ATA but not guaranteed - the dialler is just a DTMF generator with preset mesages.

In reply to a post by MHC:

if you were willing to disconnect then there should be no problem. I cannot understand why they refused an upgrade.

The voice dialler might have worked over a VoIP connection with a suitable ATA but not guaranteed - the dialler is just a DTMF generator with preset mesages.

I recall one member who got his house alarm dialler working with VOIP but as you say not guaranteed, I was more surprise that Talk Talk are now doing their own VOIP as they supply a Amazon eero 6 which doesn't come with a BT type jack on the back like the other routers supplied by the likes of BT and Sky.

Thanks for the ATA and speech dialler idea. I was thinking about asking my alarm company about that.

I was also surprised they now offer voIP. I asked the CSRep about that and she said there was the option of a data only (non voIP) or one with voIP. I also asked her for the price for a Future Fibre 65 and that package had the same option - data (non-voIP) or voIP.

With the eero TalkTalk always supply the Grandstream HT801 ATA which has RJ45 and RJ11 sockets and a short lead with RJ11 at one end and RJ45 at other end. So connection is eero > Grandstream > short lead > Phone et voila - voIP. On their cheapest package, TalkTalk supply a router instead of the eero. Router has RJ11 Digital Voice port which phone plugs into. Although their postcode Future Availability checker seems to be in a bit of a mess at the moment (or is it TalkTalk's Future Fibre rollout?) as it wasn't advising me that I could keep my landline. I live in N. Ireland and was using it to look at GB postcodes, some cities like Manchester, it told me there was no option to keep landline with FTTP.

I asked my alarm company for their advice and they replied "the alarm will work as a standard alarm without the speech dialler. Whatever you decide to choose from Talk Talk doesn’t affect us at all."

I have since posted on TalkTalk's forum to see if I can get them to change their mind and upgrade me.

Thanks.

Edited by DrStrange (Fri 19-Aug-22 17:14:48)

In reply to a post by DrStrange:

...
I have since posted on TalkTalk's forum to see if I can get them to change their mind and upgrade me.
...

That part's easy - just tell them you got mixed up and that the alarm does not connect to the phone line.

Have you also though about an alarm update?

2002 - so 20 years old although probably still working well. Move to a Texecom Premier Elite - keeping your existing sensors if you wish and then add a SmartCom which will use an IP connection to tell YOU what is happening - as well as the monitoring company if you want.

Thanks MHC.
Yes, I have been investigating what my FTTP/voIP options are for a while now. I contacted my alarm company last month who had told me that the speech dialler would not work over voIP but the main alarm would continue to work normally. They said they could install a more modern system that "would utilise Wi-Fi for all it's comms." I asked them to clarify what this meant as it sounded to me that system didn't have the same capability as my speech dialler to notify me when I was out and about (WiFI would only work in the home) and asked him to quote me for this system. They didn't get back to me.
It's been a very reliable system. I think I have only got the alarm company out twice in those 20 years, just to replace the back up battery, no other problems with it.

Edited by DrStrange (Fri 19-Aug-22 21:21:20)

They are just being safe - the dialler may work, but then again it may not. For a speech dialler the main issue is likely to be reliable signalling to tell the dialler the called party has answered and then hung up.

VoIP ATAs are designed to detect and handle DTMF tones, the more common (non-speech) alarm diallers use several proprietary protocols e.g. https://www.bsia.co.uk/zappfiles/bsia-front/pdfs/255... which may not be accurately transmitted.

The newer Texecom communicators connect to a cloud service and you interact with the system via an app rather than you being called with a pre-recorded message. Them mentioning WiFi is how the communicator connects via home network to be able to access the cloud service, a wired network connection is also possible.

However, AFAIK these communicators only work with the Premier Elite panels, not the entry-level Veritas ones. There may be newer third-party speech diallers which will work to avoid having to replace the main alarm control panel which by the sounds of it is fine.

I have a Texecom Premier Elite which I installed a bit over 6 years ago. It uses a wired connection to the Internet via a normal router. The ComIP module which does this cost more than the control panel. There are later internet options.

I get various emails if the status of the alarm system changes and I can see and alter the status of the control panel using the Texecom Wintex software.

The ComIP was their first go at IP connectivity so was an alternative to the Com300 and Com2400 modem communicators, they also did a ComGSM which supported GSM & GPRS.

All of those are discontinued. There is now the SmartCom which has ethernet/WiFi connectivity, or the SmartCom 4G which additionally has 4G data connectivity. Probably less expensive that the original ComIP.

Not quite - the ComIP is still available and often used when a user has a full home automation system.

You are right about the prices - a ComIP is about the same as the SmartCom 4G

The ComIP module is little circuit board that fits inside the control panel and can be configured with a fixed IP address. The SmartCom is a separate box and needs a DHCP server to provide it with an IP address.

And the relavancy of your post?

In reply to a post by Michael_Chare:

The ComIP module is little circuit board that fits inside the control panel and can be configured with a fixed IP address. The SmartCom is a separate box and needs a DHCP server to provide it with an IP address.

URLs of this hardware would be most helpful please.

Is there some other fundamental underlying non-compatibility with the light from the Fibre strands and the electonics in an alarm system that I am missing here?

Nothing to do with light and fibre, unless you’re in need of some gut health and digestion improvements.

Note that VoIP will run over the top of any IP based connection - be it ADSL or 4/5G cellular. We will all be running some form of VoIP after PSTN gets withdrawn in a few years. That could indeed still be served on a copper pair, where there’s no FTTP.

You’re relying on the ATA to provide a fully 100% compatible signaling interface to/from the alarm dialer. Some folks will know how finicky ATAs can be at these tasks (try getting a fax machine reliably working) - even if the ATA theoretically supports the numerous ways in which DTMF signalling can be sent/received over a VoIP service.

The recommendation with VoIP based circuits is to upgrade to an IP or combo IP/Cellular communicator card rather than chancing it with the original analogue communicators.

https://branding.texe.com/UK/products/series/communi...

FYI, I am now signed up to TalkTalk's FTTP with voIP. I truthfully told them I had no alarm connected - I removed the speech dialler wires from the master socket.

The CsRep said that I would "lose my landline however you will be provided with a Digital Voice Adaptor, will that be ok with you?" , and their postcode checker says keeping my landline is not an option where I live. So I got him/her to check that I could keep my landline number. They came back to me after a few minutes and said after checking thoroughly that I will not lose my landline number. Then I read the contract information they sent me which says "This plan has fibre broadband Digital Voice (includes free TalkTalk to TalkTalk calls) and doesn't need a landline". Fingers crossed I haven't lost my landline number after the install. We quite understand that the landline will no longer work over the MPF/copper line (whatever you want to call it) when changing to FTTP. I wish the ISPs could make the distinction between landlines and landline numbers clearer in the information they provide.
I honestly think the attitude of ISPs in general is they would like landline numbers to just go away - what they tell you they can provide you in relation to your landline is very ambiguous.
I don't need to keep my landline number, just would like to option of having it as another avenue of communication.

My alarm company says one of the alarm systems they can provide is a ProControl+ from Pryronix which would be a big upgrade to cameras from my Texecom Veritas. I am not going for that one, it connects through the PyronixCloud with a yearly subscription. I will not be paying any subscription.

I honestly think the attitude of ISPs in general is they would like landline numbers to just go away - what they tell you they can provide you in relation to your landline is very ambiguous.

Personal preference is always to port a number out to a third party VoIP service provider. Safeguards the number and means you can can change ISP in future without going through all these shenanigans again. Other advantages with this approach include taking your number with you where ever you are (business or pleasure) and your choice of access device - tin or software or both. Generally much cheaper in the short and long term too.

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

I honestly think the attitude of ISPs in general is they would like landline numbers to just go away - what they tell you they can provide you in relation to your landline is very ambiguous.

Personal preference is always to port a number out to a third party VoIP service provider. Safeguards the number and means you can can change ISP in future without going through all these shenanigans again. Other advantages with this approach include taking your number with you where ever you are (business or pleasure) and your choice of access device - tin or software or both. Generally much cheaper in the short and long term too.

Agreed, and it’s the same theory that saw me in good stead with e-mail way back when.

In reply to a post by tdw42:

There is now the SmartCom which has ethernet/WiFi connectivity, or the SmartCom 4G which additionally has 4G data connectivity. Probably less expensive that the original ComIP.

Sorry to bring this thread back from the dead.

Does anyone know for a fact if the 4G Smartcom unit comes with a stand sim slot or just an eSim?

The wording on the website suggests the 4G service is part of the product with no option to put your own SIM in. This would make sense if they have an agreement to roam onto whatever network has the best signal.

In reply to a post by dect:

Does anyone know for a fact if the 4G Smartcom unit comes with a stand sim slot or just an eSim?

There are some manuals https://www.manualslib.com/products/Texecom-Smartcom... which imply it is eSIM only, and state that you require a Texecom Cloud account to enable the product to operate correctly.

It is 100% eSIM ... there is a SIM slot but that is not available at present. Texecom are considering the possibility of enabling it but nothing at present.

Thanks jpm, tdw42 and MHC for your responses.

Hopefully they will make available the standard sim slot at some point.