Openreach FTTP

Openreach are rolling out FTTP in my area and many nearby addresses already have it available. If I use the online availability checker it appears I will be able to get it sometime between now and Dec 2026. Is there any way of getting a more accurate prediction? Lit Fibre can connect me now so it can't be an infrastructure problem preventing Openreach from giving a better idea of availabilty.

Lit Fibre is a completely different network and has no bearing on OpenReach availability (they may possibly use the same ducts/poles if Lit are using OpenReach PIA but otherwise every part of the solution is separate). Given they are there could mean that OpenReach would see it as a potential competitor that could lose them business so may mean that they would deploy sooner but your guess is as good as ours. BT won't publish detailed plans and even if they did those plans are subject to change.

You've asked about this before and the answers at the time explained how they are two separate networks

https://forums.thinkbroadband.com/fibre/f/4722533-li...

Do you need FTTP but don't want to use Lit for whatever reason?

I would prefer to use Openreach FTTP as it would probably give me a choice of ISPs. I mentioned Lit to demonstrate that the Openreach ducts and poles they are using show that there should be no problems with providing the physical connections to properties. I was just asking why Openreach can only say availability is now for some addresses or sometime in the next 3 years for others. If I knew it would be 1 year I would be happy to wait but not if is 3 years.

To answer your question

No, there are no official ways to get an accurate prediction. Your could try asking high level complaints but they are likely to give you the 2026 date as the design and build of your PON probably hasn't even got any further than the to do list.

In reply to a post by HughA:

I mentioned Lit to demonstrate that the Openreach ducts and poles they are using show that there should be no problems with providing the physical connections to properties.

Having Openreach Physical Infrastructure in place doesn't mean anything.... as it was put in most likely decades ago for copper. As in my town we have no sign of Openreach FTTP but there are two alternate networks whom are paying Openreach to put their fibre in the ducts and on poles. (similar to Lit in your area).

Our exchange showed the same, so I subscribed to the Openreach "keep me informed" system and also enquired by email. They were very helpful and told me when the build would be starting locally. I then followed https://bidb.uk/ to see what progress was being made.

Thanks, I will give that a try.

It can also change at any point. Fibre is being installed around me but Openreach took my street off their plan a couple of weeks ago. We’ve now no idea if it’s an error or genuine descoping. BIDB has also now changed to ‘unplanned’ status, so despite fibre all around, it doesn’t look as if Openreach will bother. We’re fully ducted with no known issues.

Edited by MercuryRH2 (Sat 04-Mar-23 12:58:51)

In reply to a post by MercuryRH2:

We’ve now no idea if it’s an error or genuine descoping.

As you say this can be very frustrating and can leave many in limbo and I feel for those affected.

The best advice I can give to anyone who has other full fibre options available is to go with the altnet as you can always switch at the next contract renewal if Openreach FTTP has become available but don't sit and wait as it may never arrive.

In reply to a post by dect:

... if Openreach FTTP has become available but don't sit and wait as it may never arrive.

Never? That's a long time. Are you implying that in some places OR may keep copper running indefinitely if they don't provide fibre there?

In reply to a post by Thaumaturge:

In reply to a post by dect:

... if Openreach FTTP has become available but don't sit and wait as it may never arrive.

Never? That's a long time. Are you implying that in some places OR may keep copper running indefinitely if they don't provide fibre there?

Here's what OR says "Our plans support the Government’s ambition of making Gigabit capable broadband available to more than 85%",

Unlikely that they will keep copper running, more likely to withdraw copper and direct people to cellular alternatives.

In reply to a post by Thaumaturge:

In reply to a post by dect:

... if Openreach FTTP has become available but don't sit and wait as it may never arrive.

Never? That's a long time. Are you implying that in some places OR may keep copper running indefinitely if they don't provide fibre there?

Yes - although it would be more accurate to say there are some places that they will never provide fibre to, where they provide copper today.

As the Shared Rural Network expands, they may use mobile networks to meet their USO obligations, or maybe even Oneweb / Starlink.

Of course they *may* replace copper with fibre, especially when government grants are dangled in front of them.

In reply to a post by Thaumaturge:

Never? That's a long time. Are you implying that in some places OR may keep copper running indefinitely if they don't provide fibre there?

As others have stated copper is likely to be removed at some point so some may not have an Openreach option after that. Personally I think as the percentage of full fibre deployments gets closer to the 85-95% mark the voices of those without full fibre won't be heard so the drive to get to 100% will fade. I decided to pay what is a fair chunk of change as I wasn't willing to wait for something that may never arrive here either from Openreach or an altnet.

Edited by deleted (Mon 06-Mar-23 14:27:08)

In reply to a post by Thaumaturge:

In reply to a post by dect:

... if Openreach FTTP has become available but don't sit and wait as it may never arrive.

Never? That's a long time. Are you implying that in some places OR may keep copper running indefinitely if they don't provide fibre there?

It isn't a choice between roll out FTTP or leave copper running indefinitely.

There will be very rural properties who Openreach will not be available to pay for full fibre from their own pocket.
The government will pay for/subsidize some of these, but not all.

Some properties will simply be left with no Openreach option at all. They will likely be offered a reduced cost LEO satellite option.
The government just happens to have part ownership of such a company (Oneweb).

Openreach won't run copper forever and some properties will be far too expensive to run fibre to (6 or 7 figures for some extremely rural properties).

There are already many thousands of properties who's lines are too long to receive ANY broadband over Openreach.
ADSL just stops working at certain distances.
Once PSTN goes in 2025 they effectively have no Openreach option already.

Edited by j0hn83 (Mon 06-Mar-23 19:10:38)

But it’s only ‘more than 85%’ which means exactly what? 86% or……..what?

We have FTTC and a good service at 80/20 and are completely surrounded by FTTP meaning it should not be a 6-figure sum to add another 13 homes all within 100m of some or other FTTP service provision.

For those with access the postcode is SG19 1XA (Sandy Exchange with I think Sheffield as the head end?). In only suggest Sheffield as a recent failure there took the whole area out for a few hours.

I'd be surprised if you weren't getting FTTP considering the estate age is similar to everything around you. BIDB doesn't know anything special about the Openreach plans for deployment so don't read into it too much.

You also won't see street works permits for Openreach working in their own chambers so don't be put off if the little dots don't appear. Openreach cabled half our town and permits only appeared where ducts needed digging to unblock, or traffic management was required to work on poles.

I think you mean Shefford, I haven't noticed any problems lately, there was a power cut 25th Feb that apparently affected a large area around Biggleswade towards Shefford, got a SMS from power company, it seems I'm still listed as 'vulnerable', but we where out that day.

My remark was sort of based on Ofcom's WFTMR statement for 2021-6, particularly volume 3, available from here.

I'm no expert, and I'm not going to go into all the all the details here (vol 3 alone is over 200 pages). Read the referenced docs for more info. But section 2 of vol 3 defines a procedure for withdrawing copper regulation **where and only where full fibre is available**. Where it is not, there is no change to existing WLA regulation.

The WFTMR defines two thresholds:
1) When 75% of an exchange area has FTTP available, a copper stop-sell can be introduced;
2) When an exchange area is "complete" (all properties connected, with exceptions essentially where it is logistically or legally impossible to connect) then price controls on copper products are relaxed.
Presumably copper prices will then rise sharply to encourage remaining customers to migrate. This scheme was deliberately designed to incentivise OR to complete areas, rather than just do enough of the easy bits to discourage competitors from building, and then never complete the harder bits.

The 2020 consultation docs which preceded this WFTMR contained a proposed third threshold for the complete deregulation of copper services (ie allowing them to be withdrawn completely). This was not included in the WFTMR, because it was thought unlikely that any exchanges (apart from Salisbury and Mildenhall) would complete the first and second stages by 2026. Thus I don't think there is any Ofcom defined mechanism for copper services switch-off before 2026. Something along the lines of threshold 3 will almost certainly be part of the WFTMR for 2026 onwards, but unless it is radically changed it will be predicated on the availability of full fibre.

Some of the comments above seem inconsistent with the current Ofcom regulatory framework. That of course can and probably will change over time. Maybe some contributors are predicting how things will work out in the long term, rather than how it will be for the next 3 years or so?

I did mean Shefford….blasted auto correct!

We had no messages or power loss here and Zen’s status monitor reported the issue was at that exchange.

In reply to a post by jpm:

I'd be surprised if you weren't getting FTTP considering the estate age is similar to everything around you. BIDB doesn't know anything special about the Openreach plans for deployment so don't read into it too much.

Whilst it's true that bidb doesn't know anything special, there's a distinct difference between planned and unplanned premises.

The source of data changed, that's likely why it changed from planned->unplanned, and it's likely that nothing itself changed about the premise and would have always returned "unplanned".

The December 2026 deadline is somewhat vague. This is the deadline date for all premises within Fibre First but there's actually no evidence that an area will be upgraded even if it is planned!

I enquired about this with Openreach (Ethan Evans) via email 4 months ago asking why certain buildings in my area that are also under my same EastendHomes management on a plan for FTTP while others like my own do not. The response was that once a wayleave agreement has been made and the landlord/freeholder was in contact with Openreach then hopefully all the premises will be rolled-out even on those that don't show as planned.

I'm also seeing a strange result from the Openreach checker. For example if I put E1 6DH and select only Denning Point (where I live in Central London) or the Care Takers address then it will show "Build planned between now and Dec-2026".

But the rest of the addresses within this building along with postcode E1 6DJ will show no plan at all.

This is funny because the Care Takers room address is within the ground floor of the inside of the premises, so I don't see how Openreach will only build FTTP only in the ground floor of Denning Point, but not rest of the flats!

So this is why the checker cannot be taken seriously. I can only hope that with you having Lit Fibre and me having Community Fibre, Openreach may show interest in rolling out due to competition from the Altnets. Obviously if all the residents in our areas migrate to the Altnet and Openreach lose all their FTTC/ADSL customers it is logical to assume that they will build FTTP, if they don't it's their loss. In fact it will be a bigger loss for Openreach than it is for us.