In reply to a post by dect:

... if Openreach FTTP has become available but don't sit and wait as it may never arrive.

Never? That's a long time. Are you implying that in some places OR may keep copper running indefinitely if they don't provide fibre there?

In reply to a post by Thaumaturge:

In reply to a post by dect:

... if Openreach FTTP has become available but don't sit and wait as it may never arrive.

Never? That's a long time. Are you implying that in some places OR may keep copper running indefinitely if they don't provide fibre there?

Here's what OR says "Our plans support the Government’s ambition of making Gigabit capable broadband available to more than 85%",

Unlikely that they will keep copper running, more likely to withdraw copper and direct people to cellular alternatives.

In reply to a post by Thaumaturge:

In reply to a post by dect:

... if Openreach FTTP has become available but don't sit and wait as it may never arrive.

Never? That's a long time. Are you implying that in some places OR may keep copper running indefinitely if they don't provide fibre there?

Yes - although it would be more accurate to say there are some places that they will never provide fibre to, where they provide copper today.

As the Shared Rural Network expands, they may use mobile networks to meet their USO obligations, or maybe even Oneweb / Starlink.

Of course they *may* replace copper with fibre, especially when government grants are dangled in front of them.

In reply to a post by Thaumaturge:

Never? That's a long time. Are you implying that in some places OR may keep copper running indefinitely if they don't provide fibre there?

As others have stated copper is likely to be removed at some point so some may not have an Openreach option after that. Personally I think as the percentage of full fibre deployments gets closer to the 85-95% mark the voices of those without full fibre won't be heard so the drive to get to 100% will fade. I decided to pay what is a fair chunk of change as I wasn't willing to wait for something that may never arrive here either from Openreach or an altnet.

Edited by deleted (Mon 06-Mar-23 14:27:08)

In reply to a post by Thaumaturge:

In reply to a post by dect:

... if Openreach FTTP has become available but don't sit and wait as it may never arrive.

Never? That's a long time. Are you implying that in some places OR may keep copper running indefinitely if they don't provide fibre there?

It isn't a choice between roll out FTTP or leave copper running indefinitely.

There will be very rural properties who Openreach will not be available to pay for full fibre from their own pocket.
The government will pay for/subsidize some of these, but not all.

Some properties will simply be left with no Openreach option at all. They will likely be offered a reduced cost LEO satellite option.
The government just happens to have part ownership of such a company (Oneweb).

Openreach won't run copper forever and some properties will be far too expensive to run fibre to (6 or 7 figures for some extremely rural properties).

There are already many thousands of properties who's lines are too long to receive ANY broadband over Openreach.
ADSL just stops working at certain distances.
Once PSTN goes in 2025 they effectively have no Openreach option already.

Edited by j0hn83 (Mon 06-Mar-23 19:10:38)

But it’s only ‘more than 85%’ which means exactly what? 86% or……..what?

We have FTTC and a good service at 80/20 and are completely surrounded by FTTP meaning it should not be a 6-figure sum to add another 13 homes all within 100m of some or other FTTP service provision.

For those with access the postcode is SG19 1XA (Sandy Exchange with I think Sheffield as the head end?). In only suggest Sheffield as a recent failure there took the whole area out for a few hours.

I'd be surprised if you weren't getting FTTP considering the estate age is similar to everything around you. BIDB doesn't know anything special about the Openreach plans for deployment so don't read into it too much.

You also won't see street works permits for Openreach working in their own chambers so don't be put off if the little dots don't appear. Openreach cabled half our town and permits only appeared where ducts needed digging to unblock, or traffic management was required to work on poles.

I think you mean Shefford, I haven't noticed any problems lately, there was a power cut 25th Feb that apparently affected a large area around Biggleswade towards Shefford, got a SMS from power company, it seems I'm still listed as 'vulnerable', but we where out that day.

My remark was sort of based on Ofcom's WFTMR statement for 2021-6, particularly volume 3, available from here.

I'm no expert, and I'm not going to go into all the all the details here (vol 3 alone is over 200 pages). Read the referenced docs for more info. But section 2 of vol 3 defines a procedure for withdrawing copper regulation **where and only where full fibre is available**. Where it is not, there is no change to existing WLA regulation.

The WFTMR defines two thresholds:
1) When 75% of an exchange area has FTTP available, a copper stop-sell can be introduced;
2) When an exchange area is "complete" (all properties connected, with exceptions essentially where it is logistically or legally impossible to connect) then price controls on copper products are relaxed.
Presumably copper prices will then rise sharply to encourage remaining customers to migrate. This scheme was deliberately designed to incentivise OR to complete areas, rather than just do enough of the easy bits to discourage competitors from building, and then never complete the harder bits.

The 2020 consultation docs which preceded this WFTMR contained a proposed third threshold for the complete deregulation of copper services (ie allowing them to be withdrawn completely). This was not included in the WFTMR, because it was thought unlikely that any exchanges (apart from Salisbury and Mildenhall) would complete the first and second stages by 2026. Thus I don't think there is any Ofcom defined mechanism for copper services switch-off before 2026. Something along the lines of threshold 3 will almost certainly be part of the WFTMR for 2026 onwards, but unless it is radically changed it will be predicated on the availability of full fibre.

Some of the comments above seem inconsistent with the current Ofcom regulatory framework. That of course can and probably will change over time. Maybe some contributors are predicting how things will work out in the long term, rather than how it will be for the next 3 years or so?