Copper Line Removal?

Had a couple friends recently who had Openreach FTTP installed and in both cases Openreach have completely removed the copper lines regardless of existing VDSL service being in place (In At least one of those cases It was a new order NOT a migration)


Is this always the case for Openreach FTTP, does it make a difference if it's a business vs residential?

This concerns me as at work we sometimes handle the broadband lines for some of our customers and it could be a problem if they do it at a business premise

Edited by dragon2611 (Thu 06-Apr-23 09:54:55)

When I switched to FTTP the Openreach engineer wanted to use the copper to pull the fibre through to the CSP but I had to point out that my work connection was over copper so it had to stay in place.

It's useful having the copper as a backup.

Our line runs from a pole over a busy road to our gable wall. I was worried when only one OR techie arrived to change our FTTC to FTTP. No trouble, he said, and used the copper line to pull the fibre from pole to gable, thence into the house and the box in our study. Said this was normal procedure as the copper would be removed from the pole to the cabinet anyway.

In reply to a post by Malwaremike:

Our line runs from a pole over a busy road to our gable wall. I was worried when only one OR techie arrived to change our FTTC to FTTP. No trouble, he said, and used the copper line to pull the fibre from pole to gable, thence into the house and the box in our study. Said this was normal procedure as the copper would be removed from the pole to the cabinet anyway.

So no chance of going back to FTTc if there is a problem with FTTP.

A Openreach engineer I was talking to said that eventually the copper lines to the buildings will be removed, but said nothing about the cable from the pole. No doubt in years to come they will be removed.

Why on earth would you want to go back to FTTC?

I went from talktalk FTTC to future 500 and they let me keep the land line operational for free until I upgraded to fibre 900.



The last month of usage showed we made ;1 land line call so its not missed.

In reply to a post by dragon2611:

Had a couple friends recently who had Openreach FTTP installed and in both cases Openreach have completely removed the copper lines regardless of existing VDSL service being in place (In At least one of those cases It was a new order NOT a migration)

If the VDSL service is live, and it's not a migration, then they can't do this. You should simply report a fault on the VDSL service via your CSP, and they'll have to reinstate the copper. If the CSP is a member of the OFCOM auto-compensation scheme then you should get paid a substantial amount per day for the amount of time it's out of service beyond 2 days.

In reply to a post by dragon2611:

Is this always the case for Openreach FTTP, does it make a difference if it's a business vs residential?

Normally, if the service is fed through an underground duct they'll just pull the fibre alongside it. If it's fed from overhead then they *can* replace the copper drop cable with a "hybrid" cable (fibre + copper), although it will depend on what supplies they have available. Or they could run two cables side by side, if the pole has sufficient loading capacity.

In my experience, they generally leave the copper in case it's required in future - although in the case of a migration and in a copper "stop sell" area, I guess they may not.

However, if you tell them on the day that the copper is live, then they should not disconnect a live service. If that means abandoning the appointment because they can't get the right cable from stores, then they can do that (and you'll also get compensation in that case).

In reply to a post by candlerb:

If the VDSL service is live, and it's not a migration, then they can't do this. You should simply report a fault on the VDSL service via your CSP, and they'll have to reinstate the copper. If the CSP is a member of the OFCOM auto-compensation scheme then you should get paid a substantial amount per day for the amount of time it's out of service beyond 2 days.

Good to know, in this case the intention was always to cease the VDSL service but the FTTP had been ordered as a new provide and the plan would have been to have both running for a short time to make sure everything was stable before ceasing the VDSL

What I'm getting from this is clearly it can happen (because it did) but it Shouldn't happen.

In reply to a post by neo_wales:

Why on earth would you want to go back to FTTC?

Maybe because Fibre has a problem or they may change to a provider that don't do FTTP

I went from talktalk FTTC to future 500 and they let me keep the land line operational for free until I upgraded to fibre 900.

That is nice for you, Not everyone wants or need super duper speed.

The last month of usage showed we made ;1 land line call so its not missed.

I have VoIP anyway, I had it when I went to a wireless broadband network, there is no phone connected to my landline. I don't really use the VoIP that much.

Don't know if this has been answered elsewhere.
This thread has got me wondering, we are all Broadband people but what about people who do not have Internet of any kind, but do have home phone lines using BTs copper service, what will happen to them when BT removes the copper lines

In reply to a post by The_Voyager:

Don't know if this has been answered elsewhere.

Its answered elsewhere, search "PSTN shutdown". the copper line is actually an Openreach line, BT Retail is one of many Communications Providers that use the copper line, as well as others such as Sky and TalkTalk.

Not all areas with get FTTP, some extremely rural areas may have fast internet via radio (5G or other) or satellite, and get to keep any working copper line services.

There has also been no announcement that Openreach are removing copper from the 'last mile' network.

Edited by jchamier (Wed 12-Apr-23 08:17:32)