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Hello
To my delight I saw a bunch of foreign contractors (not able to speak English unfortunately) pulling and pushing a black coated thick fibre wire through the streets today.
Pictures:
Pic 1
Pic 2
Should I be excited for FTTP finally? The BT checker still says they have no major plans to build in the exchange though :/
N.B The writing on the wire says F & W Network Ltd
Thoughts everyone?!!!??!
Edited by Bobby_Valentino (Tue 30-Apr-24 12:59:46)
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F & W Network is an Altnet
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F & W Network is an Altnet
Didn't realise individual ISPs'/companies were allowed to put their own fibre into the existing ducting/system.
1) Does that mean BT FTTP will never be available as it's now covered by another provider?
2) If BT does become available will they just blow the fibre immediately next to F & W's fibre?
3) What happens if F& W / Altnet go bankrupt etc ... will they remove their own fibre wires or keep that in situ for another provider to take over?
Apologies in advance for the basic questions!
Edited by Bobby_Valentino (Tue 30-Apr-24 14:06:14)
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Depends. If that's just a fibre cable passing through the chamber, it could be on its way to serve a different area - and make no difference to how quickly your area is served.
However if you see them putting in a Connectorised Block Terminal or a splice enclosure, then it's more likely they could serve you from it.
Why not just check your postcode online? https://fwnetworks.co.uk/
and/or see if your town is listed here: https://fwnetworks.co.uk/our-network/coverage/
Also you can check for streetworks permits in your area on https://bidb.uk/
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Depends. If that's just a fibre cable passing through the chamber, it could be on its way to serve a different area - and make no difference to how quickly your area is served.
However if you see them putting in a Connectorised Block Terminal or a splice enclosure, then it's more likely they could serve you from it.
Why not just check your postcode online? https://fwnetworks.co.uk/
and/or see if your town is listed here: https://fwnetworks.co.uk/our-network/coverage/
Also you can check for streetworks permits in your area on https://bidb.uk/
Just typed my postcode in ... Unfortunately our services are not available within the ... area.
However my town is covered by the area they've highlighted on the map
Edited by Bobby_Valentino (Tue 30-Apr-24 14:13:01)
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Just typed my postcode in ... Unfortunately our services are not available within the ... area.
However my town is covered by the area they've highlighted on the map
That just means that right this minute, you can't order their services, but it doesn't mean that you won't be able to in the future, or even that they are working to deliver it right now. Maybe reach out to them and ask if you're on a deployment plan - it can't hurt.
FWIW I get the same thing when searching with my postcode on the altnet bring service to my street, but they are literally testing the service today and this will certainly change in the coming days and weeks.
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Alt nets can use BT passive infrastructure (ducts, poles, etc) - BT are required by Ofcom to make it available.
1) It doesn't mean BT won't come to your area, in some cases it actually appears it has meant that BT have moved to an area more quickly due to concerns they will lose customers.
2) Yes, BT fibre would be blown alongside an alt nets fibre - multiple fibres can share the same ducting.
3) If they go bankrupt I suspect they wouldn't remove the fibre as there would be no viable company to remove it. In most cases it is probable another provider would buy up the assets and customer base but not guaranteed.
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Alt nets can use BT passive infrastructure (ducts, poles, etc) - BT are required by Ofcom to make it available.
1) It doesn't mean BT won't come to your area, in some cases it actually appears it has meant that BT have moved to an area more quickly due to concerns they will lose customers.
2) Yes, BT fibre would be blown alongside an alt nets fibre - multiple fibres can share the same ducting.
3) If they go bankrupt I suspect they wouldn't remove the fibre as there would be no viable company to remove it. In most cases it is probable another provider would buy up the assets and customer base but not guaranteed.
Openreach, not BT!
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Alt nets can use BT passive infrastructure (ducts, poles, etc) - BT are required by Ofcom to make it available.
1) It doesn't mean BT won't come to your area, in some cases it actually appears it has meant that BT have moved to an area more quickly due to concerns they will lose customers.
2) Yes, BT fibre would be blown alongside an alt nets fibre - multiple fibres can share the same ducting.
3) If they go bankrupt I suspect they wouldn't remove the fibre as there would be no viable company to remove it. In most cases it is probable another provider would buy up the assets and customer base but not guaranteed.
Openreach, not BT!
Sorry, eek!
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Alt nets can use BT passive infrastructure (ducts, poles, etc) - BT are required by Ofcom to make it available.
1) It doesn't mean BT won't come to your area, in some cases it actually appears it has meant that BT have moved to an area more quickly due to concerns they will lose customers.
2) Yes, BT fibre would be blown alongside an alt nets fibre - multiple fibres can share the same ducting.
3) If they go bankrupt I suspect they wouldn't remove the fibre as there would be no viable company to remove it. In most cases it is probable another provider would buy up the assets and customer base but not guaranteed.
Thanks for all those answers!
I had another one ... 4) Will alt nets newly laid fibre (along the street) connect to to Openreachs existing FTTC DSLAM located up the road, which in turn uses BT's fibre back to the BT telephone exchange?
Edited by Bobby_Valentino (Tue 30-Apr-24 15:20:17)
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I had another one ... 4) Will alt nets newly laid fibre (along the street) connect to to Openreachs existing FTTC DSLAM located up the road, which in turn uses BT's fibre back to the BT telephone exchange?
No, they use the physical stuff (poles, ducts, inspection boxes and exchanges) but none of OR's connectivity. So everything they put in will be in parallel to any existing or future OR (or, indeed, other altnet's) fibre deployment. Round here, they're not even using the local exchanges, but are deploying a much wider area from a single, central exchange than would traditionally be done with copper, so their fibre runs in the ground right past my local exchange and away down the road towards the next town where it will actually terminate.
Edited by daern (Tue 30-Apr-24 15:57:57)
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True. Slip of the keyboard...
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Is it though? My understanding is that Openreach manage the assets, but BT own them.
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2) Yes, BT fibre would be blown alongside an alt nets fibre - multiple fibres can share the same ducting.
Being pedantic maybe, but the fibre in the photos isn't being blown. It's being pushed/pulled.
The only fibre blowing most of us are likely to see is for the final link, in my case from the BT chamber to my house via the existing BT duct on behalf of CityFibre.
Photo of fibre blowing kit at customer end:
https://1drv.ms/i/s!AkhvgPvXD0_1oukobLJHynjhsKNgaw?e...
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I just used the term as it was the term the OP was used to - the actual method of getting the fibre through the duct isn't overly significant but point taken.
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I suppose you could argue it is BT Group that owns openreach though, so apologies for any implied snark before.
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4) Will alt nets newly laid fibre (along the street) connect to to Openreachs existing FTTC DSLAM located up the road, which in turn uses BT's fibre back to the BT telephone exchange?
Note that even Openreach's FTTP network in most cases doesn't go via the FTTC cabinets.
Each FTTC cabinet connects to a "fibre aggregation node" (usually underground), which has a trunk cable back to a Head End Exchange, which is one of the larger ones where the OLTs are situated.
Customer FTTP connections go to a splitter (also usually underground) which connects directly to a fibre aggregation node.
Therefore, you could remove the cabinets and the FTTP network would remain as-is.
In a few cases, cabinets contain a "subtended headend" which is a small powered OLT. This reduces the number of spine fibres required to the fibre aggregation node, and can extend the reach. But it's the exception, rather than the rule.
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Also you can check for streetworks permits in your area on https://bidb.uk/
This shows that Hey!Broadband is planned.
Am I right in saying that F & W Network Ltd is the wholesaler and companies like Hey!Broadband will use their network?
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This shows that Hey!Broadband is planned.
Am I right in saying that F & W Network Ltd is the wholesaler and companies like Hey!Broadband will use their network?
Yes -- Hey!Broadband are the "anchor tenant" for F&W's network. Hey Broadband Ltd is wholly owned by F & W Networks Ltd.
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I had another one ... 4) Will alt nets newly laid fibre (along the street) connect to to Openreachs existing FTTC DSLAM located up the road, which in turn uses BT's fibre back to the BT telephone exchange?
No, they use the physical stuff (poles, ducts, inspection boxes and exchanges) but none of OR's connectivity. So everything they put in will be in parallel to any existing or future OR (or, indeed, other altnet's) fibre deployment. Round here, they're not even using the local exchanges, but are deploying a much wider area from a single, central exchange than would traditionally be done with copper, so their fibre runs in the ground right past my local exchange and away down the road towards the next town where it will actually terminate.
I'm really struggling to find a network map for these altnets. Is there a diagram that shows on a high level diagram of the network diagram (fibre cabinet equivalent, exchange equivalent etc...), if they are not utilising BT's fibre cabs/exchanges?
Edited by Bobby_Valentino (Wed 01-May-24 11:05:04)
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To my delight I saw a bunch of foreign contractors (not able to speak English unfortunately)
Don't know why you're saying things like that.
Just 'contractors' would be fine.
- Tony Sutton
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Maybe because he was curious as to what they were doing?
Awaiting FTTP so using Starlink!
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Hello
To my delight I saw a bunch of foreign contractors (not able to speak English unfortunately) pulling and pushing a black coated thick fibre wire through the streets today.
Pictures:
Pic 1
Pic 2
Should I be excited for FTTP finally? The BT checker still says they have no major plans to build in the exchange though :/
N.B The writing on the wire says F & W Network Ltd
Thoughts everyone?!!!??!
I had a similar situation a couple of weeks ago. Saw MJ Quinns and L2 Optics around our area putting the fibre in on the underground ducts. I spoke to one of the workers who said to me that "once the cables are in and we've finished, someone from Openreach will come out, check the work and if all good light it up".
Spoke to Openreach (as Brsk are intending to put up a telephone pole in the area) asking if the fibre deployment was going to be going to my house over head or would it be underground. I got an email back saying that because the copper cable is armoured and directly buried, they don't have any way of supplying FTTP to my property at present.
Not sure if the same thing will happen, but this is just my experience thus far. OR say that I am still in the build plans.
I was thinking of possibly going with Brsk as they will most likely be the first instance of FTTP that gets enabled. However I am a bit dubious about having overhead cables, due to the anti-social behaviour of the youths etc who live further up in case they start throwing things up onto the fibre optic cables to try to break them. Is this something I should be concerned with or are the cables pretty tough?
Edited by Keith016377 (Wed 01-May-24 14:44:11)
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I'm really struggling to find a network map for these altnets. Is there a diagram that shows on a high level diagram of the network diagram (fibre cabinet equivalent, exchange equivalent etc...), if they are not utilising BT's fibre cabs/exchanges?
Nope.
Varies between them and most don't publish much of anything for obvious reasons.
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I'm really struggling to find a network map for these altnets. Is there a diagram that shows on a high level diagram of the network diagram (fibre cabinet equivalent, exchange equivalent etc...), if they are not utilising BT's fibre cabs/exchanges?
Nope.
Varies between them and most don't publish much of anything for obvious reasons.
Found one for CityFibre here ... they're using street cabinets and their own exchanges. I wonder if F & W Network has a similar network structure?
Edited by Bobby_Valentino (Wed 01-May-24 14:51:09)
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Found one for CityFibre here ... they're using street cabinets and their own exchanges. I wonder if F & W Network has a similar network structure?
No. They use active cabinets to house their powered equipment. Only CityFibre and Toob use their own building as far as I know. Shouldn't impact the service delivered either way.
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Found one for CityFibre here ... they're using street cabinets and their own exchanges. I wonder if F & W Network has a similar network structure?
No. They use active cabinets to house their powered equipment. Only CityFibre and Toob use their own building as far as I know. Shouldn't impact the service delivered either way.
Interesting, so a full exchange size equipment can fit into an active street side cabinet? ... interesting. The cabinet then connects to the ISP's routers for routing to the wider internet right?
Edited by Bobby_Valentino (Wed 01-May-24 15:48:56)
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Depending how many customers you want to serve the cabinet can be pretty small.
Virgin Media / Nexfibre are installing active cabinets containing I think a Nokia Lightspan FX-4 that are 1124 mm wide, 1459 mm high and 400 mm deep with a separate power cabinet 535 mm x 985 mm x 315 mm.
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Didn't realise individual ISPs'/companies were allowed to put their own fibre into the existing ducting/system.
Yes, via a process called PIA, other operators can rent use of Openreach ducting, poles etc.
1) Does that mean BT FTTP will never be available as it's now covered by another provider?
BT is a retail provider of broadband, it doesn't do the cabling. You probably mean Openreach, in which case, no, it doesn't make any odds in that regard. Openreach will do what Openreach wants to do.
2) If BT does become available will they just blow the fibre immediately next to F & W's fibre?
BT doesn't install fibre. Openreach does. But 'immediately next' if you mean 'in the same duct that belongs to Openereach then yes, Openreach will install its fibre in its own ducts.
3) What happens if F& W / Altnet go bankrupt etc ... will they remove their own fibre wires or keep that in situ for another provider to take over?
Most likely scenario is someone else will buy the assets. If not, I guess Openreach might want to remove it at some point if they're no longer receiving rent. Suspect nobody has considered this long term yet as we've only really had operators get bought out in the main.
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Most likely scenario is someone else will buy the assets. If not, I guess Openreach might want to remove it at some point if they're no longer receiving rent. Suspect nobody has considered this long term yet as we've only really had operators get bought out in the main.
Another question that popped into my mind was ... If I have a service provided by AltNet (which will have their own wire from underground chamber to my wall and into the home) ... if I decide to leave the AltNet back to BT ... will the AltNet provider remove this wire (within my premises) when I cancel?
Edited by Bobby_Valentino (Wed 01-May-24 17:15:37)
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Most likely not. If they remove it and you (or someone after you) decides they want service then they would have to go to the expense of installing another one. Better for the provider to just leave them dormant and they get someone sign up again in the future.
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Most likely scenario is someone else will buy the assets. If not, I guess Openreach might want to remove it at some point if they're no longer receiving rent. Suspect nobody has considered this long term yet as we've only really had operators get bought out in the main.
Another question that popped into my mind was ... If I have a service provided by AltNet (which will have their own wire from underground chamber to my wall and into the home) ... if I decide to leave the AltNet back to BT ... will the AltNet provider remove this wire (within my premises) when I cancel?
The contract you sign with the Alt Net includes the ‘right’ for their equipment to remain in situ if you stop being a customer , that way the address , irrespective of your occupancy, remains connected to that network , you don’t need to keep their ONT powered , but the owner will have no right to request its removal of the equipment
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Found one for CityFibre here ... they're using street cabinets and their own exchanges. I wonder if F & W Network has a similar network structure?
I know very little generally on this subject, but I do know that, round here, Netomnia have installed their core equipment into a single OR exchange and I suspect that this will be common in many cases. If installing more than a roadside cabinet of kit, land will be the trickiest (and most expensive) thing to acquire. Traditional exchanges are certainly going to have less kit in them in the future than once they did in the days of full copper deployments, so space will be going spare and will presumably be much cheaper than building their own.
Edited by daern (Thu 02-May-24 11:18:47)
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I think this is the same for Openreach. That's why it's best to go with one provider and then stick otherwise you could have 2 or more wires which OH can start to look a bit messy!
Awaiting FTTP so using Starlink!
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I think you guys would freak out at whats in my home.
Virgin media socket in living room.
Virgin media socket in bedroom.
BT copper socket in living room.
Cityfibre ONT in bedroom.
To me the more the better, lots of flexibility. Only issue with it all, is VM's cable outside feeding the bedroom socket isnt pinned to the wall and is loose on the ground, that bothers me, but all the other cables no issue at all.
Edited by Chrysalis (Thu 02-May-24 19:18:23)
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Some progress...
Anyone know what this big big is/what's inside this largish box? It's definitely something to do with Fibre as it's got the FW written on it (F & W) and I asked the labourer and he said it's more "fibre installs".
https://i.ibb.co/P5qLn12/20240509-120432.jpg
Saw this being installed in the slightly larger BT chambers in the road vs the usual smaller ones.
Edited by Bobby_Valentino (Thu 09-May-24 23:35:58)
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Hello
To my delight I saw a bunch of foreign contractors (not able to speak English unfortunately) pulling and pushing a black coated thick fibre wire through the streets today. Bloomin' furriners. Coming over here and blowing their fibres through our roads!
---
Andrue Cope
Brackley, UK
Edited by Andrue (Fri 10-May-24 07:35:54)
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Hello
To my delight I saw a bunch of foreign contractors (not able to speak English unfortunately) pulling and pushing a black coated thick fibre wire through the streets today. Bloomin' furriners. Coming over here and blowing their fibres through our roads!
Lol - made me chuckle!
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