Symmetric full fibre broadband

In reply to a post by joconnell:

If the latter then how can I get a symmetric service?

In reply to a post by Michael_Chare:

My Gigaclear 1Gbps FTTP connection is symmetric as the fibre goes direct from my property to a Gigaclear cabinet without being combined with data for anyone else.

In reply to a post by joconnell:

My street has recently been upgraded to FTTH Offering up to 900Mbps download and up to 215Mvps upload. Is the asymmetric speed an intrinsic feature of FTTH or is it just BTOR purposely limiting the upload speed to conserve bandwidth? If the latter then how can I get a symmetric service?

In reply to a post by candlerb:

Openreach have decided to limit the upload speeds (a) to protect the network against becoming over-contended at busy times, degrading service for other users on the same PON; and (b) to protect their leased line revenues, where they charge a lot more for a dedicated 1G/1G link.

But this *is* a business decision. Cityfibre use the same GPON technology in the older parts of their network, and still allow 900/900 symmetric. They are basically accepting the risk that two subscribers on a PON could completely saturate the upload direction; in practice it doesn't happen too often.

Side note: although Openreach claim 1000/220 for their network, almost nobody sells the 220M upload product (not even BT themselves) because the price is stupidly high. You can buy it from Cerberus for £594 install plus £204 per month. It is cheaper to buy two separate 1000/115 services! But higher download speeds are now offered (to compete with VM) so in practice, 1800/120 is the maximum you can buy.

In reply to a post by joconnell:

So basically if VM start offering symmetric products to us home users, BT will be forced to do the same to stay competitive. I reckon that'll never happen though.

Edited by jchamier (Wed 18-Sep-24 18:56:05)

In reply to a post by joconnell:

So basically if VM start offering symmetric products to us home users, BT will be forced to do the same to stay competitive.

In reply to a post by jchamier:

Is Gigaclear Point-to-Point then?? I thought only B4RN was.

In reply to a post by candlerb:

For reference: Aquiss used to sell FTTP 40/2 (yes 2Mbps upload!), which they priced at £1 per month less than 40/10, which in turn was £1 per month less than 80/20. And yet, a full one third of their customers took the 40/2 option.

Not true, because only a very small proportion of users care about upload speeds.

In reply to a post by aquiss:

Now lets quickly pick up on ADSL/2+ customers, because I am thinking about it. We currently have 57% of our ADSL customers, who can get FTTP, but for all the tea in china, they won't move...even to the point of someone saying they were happy with their 1.2Mbps earlier this week. Truth be told, changes to PSTN will likely be the only reason for change for many.

I know they is often to talk that everyone wants faster, FASTER, FAAAASTTTEER! The true reality, that just isn't the case. The spread from lower speeds to higher if anything is wider. We have circa 71% of our customers, across all tech types on services lower than 160Mbps.

In reply to a post by aquiss:

Now lets quickly pick up on ADSL/2+ customers, because I am thinking about it. We currently have 57% of our ADSL customers, who can get FTTP, but for all the tea in china, they won't move...even to the point of someone saying they were happy with their 1.2Mbps earlier this week. Truth be told, changes to PSTN will likely be the only reason for change for many.

In reply to a post by candlerb:

Thank you for providing that updated view of the real ISP customer mix. It helps to be reminded that people who subscribe to broadband forums are not representative of the population at large!

Having said that... even if only 30% of the population need or want high-speed broadband, that's still a lot of people. A proportion of those will be dependent on it economically. And in the long run, even those who only need 40/10 will benefit from a lower fault rate on FTTP than on FTTC.

In reply to a post by daern:

In reply to a post by aquiss:

Now lets quickly pick up on ADSL/2+ customers, because I am thinking about it. We currently have 57% of our ADSL customers, who can get FTTP, but for all the tea in china, they won't move...even to the point of someone saying they were happy with their 1.2Mbps earlier this week. Truth be told, changes to PSTN will likely be the only reason for change for many.

I can completely relate to this. Our street was until recently only served by (relatively poor, end of the wire) VDSL. For me, I was just at the bottom end of what was technically acceptable at 35/5, so I assume that most others on the street had a similar connection performance and a similar level of discontent with it.

In May, Youfibre went up the street and thus every house can now access 1000/1000 (or higher!) options, but even if people didn't care about speed, they offer a 150/150 service for £23.99 - I'd bet way cheaper than any copper service that residents are already paying for. This is an affluent area, so it's safe to assume that every single house has some sort of internet connection and the majority are professional people, a good number of which probably work from home at least some of the time.

I assumed that a good proportion of houses on the street would move across quite quickly, but in fact the opposite has been the case - out of 60-odd houses the only two houses that are connected are mine and one (equally enthusiastic) chap down the street that was installed the same day as me - the first day that installations were available.

I'm genuinely astonished by this. I guess some people will be tied into contracts, but the level of general apathy around it has taken me by surprise and reminded me just how little most people care about stuff like this. If iPlayer works (at least outside of the peak 6pm-8pm window) then everything is fine.

Edited by Chrysalis (Fri 20-Sep-24 13:17:14)

In reply to a post by joconnell:

For me, the lack of symmetric upload speed means that FTTH isn't a must-have for me, my current FTTC product with ~60Mbps download is sufficient for my download needs, streaming works fine so until BT complete their copper cable removal, I'll be sticking with FTTC.

Also, it won't be possible for the FTTH "master socket" to be located in-place of the FTTC master-socket without removing tiles and floorboards so when the time comes, the FTTH point will be in the lounge rather than in the hall cupboard where the FTTC point is now.

In reply to a post by jchamier:

In flats the openreach wiring is often in the communal area and run in near the front door, nowhere near any power for an ONT or router. I don't see any reason for a network to follow the old copper path, unless overhead delivery.

Edited by Taras (Sat 28-Sep-24 08:25:17)

Just remember for older houses with "or" wiring, that was done pre 80s it never even followed to a power plug, it was typically near the front door. The phone never needed power till, answer phones and cordless phones came to the masses.

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

Who wouldn’t want to make a lengthy call to Aunty Vi sat in the hall ??

In reply to a post by Taras:

Just remember for older houses with "or" wiring, that was done pre 80s it never even followed to a power plug, it was typically near the front door. The phone never needed power till, answer phones and cordless phones came to the masses.

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

Indeed, because this is where your ‘telephone seat’ with the raised built in table, ideal for you personal phone directory, where you slid the slider on the front to the correct letter of the alphabet, and it popped open at the right section. Who wouldn’t want to make a lengthy call to Aunty Vi sat in the hall ??

Such set ups are still out there … but are increasingly rare these days

In reply to a post by joconnell:

For me, the lack of symmetric upload speed means that FTTH isn't a must-have for me, my current FTTC product with ~60Mbps download is sufficient for my download needs, streaming works fine so until BT complete their copper cable removal, I'll be sticking with FTTC.
Also, it won't be possible for the FTTH "master socket" to be located in-place of the FTTC master-socket without removing tiles and floorboards so when the time comes, the FTTH point will be in the lounge rather than in the hall cupboard where the FTTC point is now.

In reply to a post by joconnell:

I've had another look at what's available via PlusNet and the upload speed is 115Mbps and not the 200-odd that I'd first thought. Which is a shame as I'd hoped full-fibre would allow me to make the most of on-line backup services for my NAS drive.

In reply to a post by VMDIAPunter:

In reply to a post by joconnell:

I've had another look at what's available via PlusNet and the upload speed is 115Mbps and not the 200-odd that I'd first thought. Which is a shame as I'd hoped full-fibre would allow me to make the most of on-line backup services for my NAS drive.

They do - I backup every night on my NAS and 115Mbps up is fine because it's an overnight thing.

In reply to a post by joconnell:

Which backup service are you using?

In reply to a post by Chrysalis:

Seems to be closer to double than triple, cerberus do have a healthy margin on it, especially if the price you quoted is exc VAT, but if they have no competition, then thats what they will do.

Edited by candlerb (Tue 01-Oct-24 18:24:32)