Complicated FTTC Situation with OpenReach

Hi everyone,

I'm hoping someone with expertise on this matter would be able to assist.

I'm in the process of buying a house and OR (OpenReach) advises that FTTC is available.
This has did have previously FTTC, but had to get the line disconnected as it wasn't properly installed and water was leaking into the house.

This left the line in a limbo state where ISP's can't see anything, everyone advises the line shows as "active" and "inactive" at the same time and they can't provide a package as they can't confirm it's state nor the capacity of the line. All of them advise to get in touch with OR about said line. Contacting OR is difficult and even when you can get hold of them, it feel like they aren't reading what you write and simply do a copy/paste response of "we can't talk to you", So OR refuses to interact directly and ISP's can't help as they have no idea what's going with the OR infrastructure on the property. I can't get an engineer appointment to verify the state of the line to 1: Confirm it's active. 2: is it FTTC or Copper all the way to the exchange.

Apparently said cabinet is now also full, which makes point 2: even more important. As the existing line may still be connected to said cabinet meaning if it is full or not would be irrelevant, since the socket would be occupied by the cut cable that's currently hanging on the side of the property.

I do have enough know how to terminate the end of the currently hanging cable to a extra OR faceplate that I happen to have, obviously with approval from the seller. But what then, let's imagine the cable is still connected, what would I have to do make it so the other end (ISP's) could tell that this line is active now. I don't see anything on the OR faceplate that would give me the impression of "yeah, once connected they should be able to see the line".

Any ideas?

Apologies for grammar, English isn't my first nor second language.

The answer is, order a service from your provider of choice, then the provider deals with Openreach.

As advised on the initial post. NO provider is able to provide a service as they can't see nor advise the capacity of the line. If I could get a service from any ISP this wouldn't be a problem to begin with.

Edited by fiox (Wed 16-Oct-24 18:22:43)

In reply to a post by fiox:

As advised on the initial post. NO provider is able to provide a service as they can't see nor advise the capacity of the line. If I could get a service from any ISP this wouldn't be a problem to begin with.

And the answer given is correct: it is the gaining provider's responsibility to sort this out with Openreach.

It cannot possibly true that "NO provider" is able to do this, because I don't believe that you have tried all providers. Could you list the ones that you have tried?

You will probably get further with a provider that has good support staff who are able to sort out this sort of problem, rather than salespeople reading from scripts.

Aquiss and AAISP are my top two I would suggest, but there are others I've seen recommended (e.g. IDNet). Even if you have to pay a bit more for service in your first year, if they get you working it will be worth it - and then you can decide later whether to keep the good support in case you need it, or switch to a cheaper provider.

I completely agree with candlerb & Zarjez! but i would add one thing which you can do - go https://www.broadbandchecker.btwholesale.com/#/ADSL/... put the postcode in for the new property and show us the details (minus cab).

I didn't believe it either until I experienced this this week.

ISP's that I have contacted and were given by openreach's own broadband checker.

Sky,
V4 Consumer,
Zen,
EE,
BT,
Plusnet

Openreach's checker always says "it's all fine". It's the ISP's that are the problem and say then can't do it.
It's very frustrating, as the next door neighbour has FTTC as well just fine and shows up on the ISP's list.

BT
Sky Results - Sample
Open Reach

They just point fingers at each other when I call the ISP's. They won't even offer the ADSL2+ package.

Edited by fiox (Wed 16-Oct-24 19:56:53)

In reply to a post by fiox:

I didn't believe it either until I experienced this this week.

ISP's that I have contacted and were given by openreach's own broadband checker.

Sky,
V4 Consumer,
Zen,
EE,
BT,
Plusnet

Openreach's checker always says "it's all fine". It's the ISP's that are the problem and say then can't do it.
It's very frustrating, as the next door neighbour has FTTC as well just fine and shows up on the ISP's list.

BT

As you previously said and now proven that there is a waiting list for your cab. ie its full. But you can order sodadsl. You currently have 3 choices -
go with (so)adsl,
see what mobile speeds are available via https://bidb.uk/
thirdly starlink.

there is a fourth one and look at whats happening in the property's county for project gigabit and if the postcode is gigabit white.

In reply to a post by Taras:

But you can order sodadsl.

That's a name I think should be kept

In reply to a post by candlerb:

In reply to a post by Taras:

But you can order sodadsl.

That's a name I think should be kept

yikes ......... 😂😂😂🙈🤣 and given the actual pain of it when most of us where on adsl2+, in hindsight my left dinky finger may have had it right!

In reply to a post by Taras:

sodadsl

I'm actually dying right now!

As I advised there was FTTC at this propery before it went on sale.

Jesus this forum is a waste of time. No one reads anything.
The neighbour has FTTC as we speak and the bt link still says "waitlist" as well.

I will indeed by going with Starlink. As the attitude of the people here is the same as OpenReach can't be effed to read anything.

In reply to a post by fiox:

As I advised there was FTTC at this propery before it went on sale.

Street cabinet may have 128 possible connections for FTTC, and when your previous owner disconnected, for you to buy, someone in the road whom previously couldn’t get FTTC took the slot. Until a slot frees up (unknown time) then you won’t be able to order FTTC.

Aquiss or AAISP should be able to tell you that, sad that Zen did not (they used to be good); but the other brands you have tried are all mass market so less flexible.

Edited by jchamier (Wed 16-Oct-24 22:00:16)

In reply to a post by fiox:

Jesus this forum is a waste of time.

I think at this point all those people here capable of helping you have vacated the thread 🤣

In reply to a post by aquiss:

In reply to a post by Taras:

sodadsl

I'm actually dying right now!

Wednesday accidental humour is always needed 😂

In reply to a post by fiox:

I will indeed by going with Starlink. As the attitude of the people here is the same as OpenReach can't be effed to read anything.

Maybe you just told us a bigger problem you have.

It's a pity you seem not to have noticed a major post a few minutes prior to the one I'm replying to, showing an ISP reading the thread. (Note that forum rules prohibit ISPs directly soliciting business).

But your attitude might not have impressed.As remarked by another poster.

In reply to a post by fiox:

As I advised there was FTTC at this propery before it went on sale.

Then sue for fraud.

Hi,

In reply to a post by fiox:

As I advised there was FTTC at this propery before it went on sale.

Jesus this forum is a waste of time. No one reads anything.
The neighbour has FTTC as we speak and the bt link still says "waitlist" as well.

I will indeed by going with Starlink. As the attitude of the people here is the same as OpenReach can't be effed to read anything.

The word "waitlist" on the BT checker indicates that is a waiting list for FTTC. That would explain why none of the internet providers are able to offer you a connection. It is nothing to do with the state of the Openreach equipment at the property.

Why would Openreach need to read anything when they have provided a facility for ISPs to check the status of the line and that checker correctly shows that there is a waitlist (as evidenced by the BT Wholesale checker showing it). It is not Openreach's problem if their customers (the ISPs) cannot read - maybe you should be directing your ire at them?

The BT checker gives an idea of the expected FTTC speeds should you get on to the waitlist and then get to the top of it.

Many ISPs do not support putting people on the waitlist so if you want the possibility of FTTC in the future at that address then you will need to find one that does. For now, the only Openreach carried form of internet connection you can get is SOADSL although, as you have found, not all providers are willing to offer this, especially if FTTC is available at the property, even if only via a waitlist.

In reply to a post by Dassa:

Why would Openreach need to read anything when they have provided a facility for ISPs to check the status of the line and that checker correctly shows that there is a waitlist (as evidenced by the BT Wholesale checker showing it). It is not Openreach's problem if their customers (the ISPs) cannot read - maybe you should be directing your ire at them?

What is Openreach's process for extending cabinet capacity at a given location? TBH, a waiting list is hardly an acceptable solution as I would imagine the number of people who (intentionally!) cancel their internet service now is pretty low, unless there is some alternative (e.g. an altnet) available to them.

Can an ISP request this from OR or is there some automatic process based on the number of premises waiting for connection? It would be a bit daft if, as I presume is the case, most ISPs won't accept orders for connections on a waiting list, thus there's little feedback to OR that they are under-capacity in a given location. "Oooh, look. We have exactly the right amount of provision at all of these cabinets because they are all exactly 100% utilised with noone waiting for a connection!"

A question to OP too - I assume you've checked that there's no other altnet operating in the area, and none planning any deployments? This is hard to know as there's not really any centralised way to check, but it might be worth a look around your area to see if there's any sign of FTTP provision nearby.

In reply to a post by daern:

What is Openreach's process for extending cabinet capacity at a given location?

In short, they don't any more - with all the focus on FTTP, there's no incentive for them to expand FTTC cabs, even at pinch points. (Remember that the broadband USO is on BT, not Openreach)

I thought I saw some articles about this not too long ago, but the most recent I can find are from 2020:

https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2020/08/rise-i...

https://www.thinkbroadband.com/news/8808-five-local-...

With FTTP rollout being the absolute priority I doubt very much if they are building any extra FTTC capacity. Only chance for the OP is for either a port to become free or (slim chance) and previously faulty port to be repaired.

Thing is as soon as any FTTP becomes available (from any provider) the cab will be have huge amounts of spare capacity available, so the payback time for any investment is very short relatively speaking, given the UK will probably be at high 90s% FTTH coverage by the end of the decade, so say really a cab upgrade on average will only be required for 2-3years. And also doing that cabinet upgrade is taking OR resources away from the FTTH upgrade.

You also have starlink and 4G/5G in very rural areas taking demand off it.

It is possible that before you considered buying the property the FTTC availability did not have "waitlist" but now you are in the unfortunate situation where the cab got filled up.

I've had this a couple of years ago in my building for about a week and then it returned back to normal. I was already a customer and I made an experiment to try and use the broadband checker for various ISPs and it was showing up as unavailable.

Then after approximately a week or so the availability returned to normal and those ISPs showed up as available.

I don't think it is a good idea to buy a property with only FTTC in mind. Most of the new properties already have FTTP and the focus now is on FTTP. You must also question yourself why the person is trying to sell away this home? Maybe he has a similar problem that you are now facing and he/she wants to get rid of it and buy somewhere that does have decent broadband.

So, even if Openreach only had FTTC at that time, you should've checked to see if there are other Altnet providers available like Virgin Media, Nexfibre, Hyperoptic, CityFibre, Community Fibre (if in London), etc so that way you aren't dependent only on Openreach FTTC.

You can also check the postcode for other ISPs to see if they are planned for your area. If they are not then maybe this property should be skipped. Of-course I'm not the best judge here and you must assess the property on all the pros and cons.
But broadband is very important. I suffered for many years on ADSL prior October 2019 when I finally had FTTC and I too would not have returned back to my old property in 2009 if I had known that my internet was that unreliable. We were renting out back then. Now we have FTTC, Community Fibre and Virgin Media soon.

If I were to buy a property today, I'd look at all Altnet providers not just rely on Openreach.

In reply to a post by BLaZiNgSPEED:

I don't think it is a good idea to buy a property with only FTTC in mind.

I think that's over-generalising. For many (I'd say most) people, if they are close enough to the cabinet to get a stable 80/20 or nearly that, FTTC is more than enough. People on thinkbroadband forums are not representative of the population as a whole.

Not having FTTP might put off a proportion of buyers when you later come to sell, but that's a different issue. Over time, you're increasingly likely to get FTTP anyway. Eventually Openreach is going to want to get rid of the runt copper network and the maintenance of obsolete VDSL technology, just as they are doing now with obsolete telephone exchanges.

Therefore, the issue is really about what you do *now* when FTTC is on wait list. 4G/5G/Starlink may be reasonable short-term workarounds.

I suggest you monitor the cabinet status twice daily, and pounce when a line becomes available. The fact that most ISPs now *don't* support the waitlist process is actually an advantage to you: it's unlikely that the port will be automatically grabbed by someone else.

In reply to a post by candlerb:

In reply to a post by BLaZiNgSPEED:

I don't think it is a good idea to buy a property with only FTTC in mind.

I think that's over-generalising. For many (I'd say most) people, if they are close enough to the cabinet to get a stable 80/20 or nearly that, FTTC is more than enough. People on thinkbroadband forums are not representative of the population as a whole.

i think for many 150 to 300mbits is more than enough. Most can get away with 80/20. Larger downloads become reasonable and uploads are also okish. Once you hit 80/20 you don't have to worry too much what the other people in your household are doing.

even in tbb land i don't think there's too many battering their 1gbit plus wan connections 24/7.

In reply to a post by candlerb:

Not having FTTP might put off a proportion of buyers when you later come to sell, but that's a different issue. Over time, you're increasingly likely to get FTTP anyway. Eventually Openreach is going to want to get rid of the runt copper network and the maintenance of obsolete VDSL technology, just as they are doing now with obsolete telephone exchanges.

Very much so, its OR and thus bt group's interest to do so.Plus you can deploy higher rated pon technology with nationwide revenue growth quickly and cheaply than what you could with dsl.

In reply to a post by candlerb:

Therefore, the issue is really about what you do *now* when FTTC is on wait list. 4G/5G/Starlink may be reasonable short-term workarounds.

if there's decent 4g/5g get a decent lte/5g router and then sell after fttc/fttp is available

In reply to a post by candlerb:

I suggest you monitor the cabinet status twice daily, and pounce when a line becomes available. The fact that most ISPs now *don't* support the waitlist process is actually an advantage to you: it's unlikely that the port will be automatically grabbed by someone else.

The biggest predication on that is fttp on the cab footprint so people can leave vdsl2.

In reply to a post by candlerb:

In reply to a post by BLaZiNgSPEED:

I don't think it is a good idea to buy a property with only FTTC in mind.

I think that's over-generalising. For many (I'd say most) people, if they are close enough to the cabinet to get a stable 80/20 or nearly that, FTTC is more than enough. People on thinkbroadband forums are not representative of the population as a whole.

Not having FTTP might put off a proportion of buyers when you later come to sell, but that's a different issue. Over time, you're increasingly likely to get FTTP anyway. Eventually Openreach is going to want to get rid of the runt copper network and the maintenance of obsolete VDSL technology, just as they are doing now with obsolete telephone exchanges.

For me the main issue would be to avoid a property that would be difficult to get fibre to, if I had to move somewhere that didn't already have it available. Things like private roads, small clusters of new development with a shared driveway, an apartment that was stuck with ADSL indicating the freeholder had spent 15+ years watching FTTC roll out and not shown an interest in getting Hyperoptic into their block, that sort of thing. Everything else is more or less fixable.

In reply to a post by candlerb:

In reply to a post by daern:

What is Openreach's process for extending cabinet capacity at a given location?

In short, they don't any more

My cabinet had waiting list status from Spring 2020 when lots of people started working from home until earlier this year when an altnet went live in most of the area it serves.

If (SO)ADSL doesn't meet the 10Mbps minimum for the USO, BT will offer a 4G mobile broadband product capped at 15Mbps and priced at the USO price cap (expensive) and one capped at 30Mbps priced above the USO price cap.

Three Home Broadband is much cheaper, if it's available.

In reply to a post by CJ8:

Three Home Broadband is much cheaper, if it's available.

I can recommend it. Driving a Smart TV, mobile, and iPad, sometimes all three at once when F1 is on NOW (TV) and Live Timing on my iPad.

Been on it since December 2018, with a few re-contracts to remove the accumulated annual price rises by getting the "new user" offer as required by Ofcom, and getting a router upgrade for free.

(Three seem to have cottoned on to that idea, as the price after the half price six months is now a few pence above what I now pay. Grrr).

Edited by pluralist (Fri 18-Oct-24 14:40:58)

In reply to a post by jpm:

main issue would be to avoid a

Blocks of flats with social landlord that owns the freehold and is not interested in even talking to an AltNet whom are right outside, nevermind when OR decide to turn up. Quite a lot of these in UK.

In reply to a post by fiox:

As I advised there was FTTC at this propery before it went on sale.

Jesus this forum is a waste of time. No one reads anything.
The neighbour has FTTC as we speak and the bt link still says "waitlist" as well.

I will indeed by going with Starlink. As the attitude of the people here is the same as OpenReach can't be effed to read anything.

The line doesn't go to the FTTC cabinet, it will go back to the copper cabinet and onwards to the exchange.

You're hitting issues due to no-one wanting to sell you SoADSL when there's an FTTC cabinet there, even if it's full. The Wholesale checker shows availability. TalkTalk or Vodafone may be useful here as they will take the entire line.

Contact Andrews and Arnold as an alternative option - https://www.aa.net.uk/

Not quite.

The copper does indeed go straight to the PSTN cabinet but then routes through the FTTC cabinet where the mini DSLAM routes the copper back to the PSTN one which then routes that to the exchange. The fibre link from the DSLAM going to the head-end fibre exchange. The same routes also in reverse of course.

The OP told us Openreach still thinks that setup was still in place when starting the topic. Given you say the cabinet now shows FTTC available the relevant jumpers may or may not still be there by now as a result of the OP's communications with them.

I'm pretty sure you know all this, but it isn't what you said and not everyone reading six months on from now might know. Almost by definition they won't.

What is almost certain is the OP won't be coming back here.

In reply to a post by pluralist:

Given you say the cabinet now shows FTTC available the relevant jumpers may or may not still be there by now as a result of the OP's communications with them.

He doesn't say FTTC now shows available. When he says the wholesale checker shows availability he's talking about SoADSL availability.

The cabinet was on a waiting list. The OP's line will have been disconnected from the tie cables to the DSLAM when his port was taken.
The cabinet showing availability again wouldn't change that.

Edited by j0hn83 (Sat 19-Oct-24 17:36:34)