As qasdfdsaq says, there is Openreach DLM running, over which Sky have some control but emphatically cannot turn off.

This runs on the DSLAM in the cabinet, controlling the link between there and you. You have to beware of upsetting that. If it thinks a line is unstable it introduces "banding", which has a much more dramatic effect then the BT Wholesale IP Profile system.

What your friend will be referring to will be the Sky DLM, and whatever functions that performs. The nearest parallel I can give is the BT Wholesale DLM which controls the line on non-LLU ADSLx lines, but does not have anything like the same significance on FTTC. That still accepts stability settings and such from ISPs using their service, but instead of applying them directly to the line it passes them through to the Openreach one.

It also receives the sync speed details from the Openreach one, and uses that to set the IP Profile. Sky also receive that sync information. What they do with it that you can observe I don't know, but it will certainly be controlling the speed data is arriving at the cabinet DSLAM. Keeping it at or below the ethernet data rate. (Sync rate less overheads). If it did not, there could be huge packet loss there and chaos within their network.

Thanks for such an in depth explanation

I won't be doing any messing then!

In reply to a post by ukhardy07:

Based on this if I got my own router that supported MER I could theoretically use my own router without using sky's what so ever.

You couldn't use your own router even if it supported MER because Sky use a variant of MER which has some sort of second authentication layer which which AFAIK no one has worked out yet. Even if they did work it out, some form of custom firmware will probably be needed.

The best anyone has done so far is set up a router with a static IP address, using the IP address obtained from a genuine Sky router but the connection has dropped after about 30 minutes when the IP lease is renewed.

In reply to a post by simon194:

You couldn't use your own router even if it supported MER because Sky use a variant of MER which has some sort of second authentication layer which which AFAIK no one has worked out yet. Even if they did work it out, some form of custom firmware will probably be needed.

Untrue - there is a working firmware from Billion that fixes the problem entirely.
Others have made Ubuntu and other distros work.

The best anyone has done so far is set up a router with a static IP address, using the IP address obtained from a genuine Sky router but the connection has dropped after about 30 minutes when the IP lease is renewed.

Nope - people have proper DHCP working and renewing leases.

The sky username/password needs to be sent in the DHCP client request - on an unusual DHCP option number.

Not many routers support it

Also can you explain why the Internet only works with the router plugged in? If I plug my pc directly into the router and unplug the sky router I can't get online.

If the connections all made in the modem surely I wouldn't need the sky router

Does the router authenticate somehow?

So, the modem makes sync with the DSLAM, the router is configured to make the PPP session over that sync.

*If* you were provided a username and password by Sky, you could plug a cable directly betwwenLAN1 and the PC and then have the PC make a PPP session directly. As ever, Sky are 'cute' about log in details.

The advantage of using the router to authenticate, is that it the makes connection more than one device simple.

wrong I am currently using DD WRT router and it working 100% hence why I would like to see my sync details without having to connect up the sky router.

So far lastime I lot my net connection was 3 days ago, when I working on the internal wiring and the router was in the way

In reply to a post by jchamier:

Untrue - there is a working firmware from Billion that fixes the problem entirely.
Others have made Ubuntu and other distros work.

I thought the Billion firmware was for the MER connections over normal ADSL?

I wasnt aware that they had a firmware that supported the SKY implementation of MER over FTTC?

sure I read somehwere there someone managed to connect billion up to sky router not sure if it was an offical work around by billion or if someone managed to hack something together based off billion info they released

In reply to a post by jchamier:

In reply to a post by simon194:

You couldn't use your own router even if it supported MER because Sky use a variant of MER which has some sort of second authentication layer which which AFAIK no one has worked out yet. Even if they did work it out, some form of custom firmware will probably be needed.

Untrue - there is a working firmware from Billion that fixes the problem entirely.
Others have made Ubuntu and other distros work.

The best anyone has done so far is set up a router with a static IP address, using the IP address obtained from a genuine Sky router but the connection has dropped after about 30 minutes when the IP lease is renewed.

Nope - people have proper DHCP working and renewing leases.

The sky username/password needs to be sent in the DHCP client request - on an unusual DHCP option number.

Not many routers support it

Indeed this gentlemen is correct. I have built my own Netgear image which puts an extra switch into the DHCP Client lease request to Sky. The key is passing the ADSL user/pass with the DHCP request. I'm sure on any router where the firmware is OpenSource due to it's BusyBox usage has the ability to be altered.

On the Sky FTTC front, I assume the GEA modem is in some sort of Bridge mode and the Sky Router does a PPPoE authentication with MER, hence why a direct Ethernet connection from your laptop doesn't work.

In reply to a post by Anonymous:

On the Sky FTTC front, I assume the GEA modem is in some sort of Bridge mode and the Sky Router does a PPPoE authentication with MER, hence why a direct Ethernet connection from your laptop doesn't work.

I believe its MPoA as used by BE & O2 - and the DHCP needs the extra option. The OpenReach modem will be passive, and Sky don't really need a login as they know which line is which - they're just being annoying!