Ah I understand now, so for on demand FTTP fibre will be added to the existing copper from the cabinet to your home. Won't the ducting be a bit full once the whole street is done? And even if ducting means there is no digging needed, won't the amount of time and effort needed to run fibre to one house in the street mean that it's better to do the whole street in one go, or at least all the houses off one pole etc?

As I understand the fibre will not go back to the cabinet. It will a new build out just like commercial FTTP. Of course that means a lot of network build for maybe just one connection, so may require a minimum number of confirmed orders. A bit speculative but there is no confirmed launch date and BT have a habbit of being late!

Believe you are wrong, the fibre data will simply be multiplexed onto the fibres at the cabinet, which is where the ducting goes to a property. Hence the need to be on a FTTC cabinet, otherwise it would be an exchange offering GEA services that was all that was needed.

Even with full FTTP they DO NOT install the fibre to everyhome, they get to within the last pole or pavement chamber, and when you order it, they blow the final 20 to 60m of fibre to the home.

Fibre is incredibly thin, and a tube can carry a great many fibres, so duct capacity is less of an issue in many ways compared to adding more copper capacity.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

Fibre is incredibly thin, and a tube can carry a great many fibres, so duct capacity is less of an issue in many ways compared to adding more copper capacity.

OK, so to kinda bring me back where I started, will Openreach put in fibre for the whole street when they do the first On Demand order so that future customers just need a connection to the pole etc?

Probably not, but they'll put in enough network for growth and expand as required.

In reply to a post by Anonymous:

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

Fibre is incredibly thin, and a tube can carry a great many fibres, so duct capacity is less of an issue in many ways compared to adding more copper capacity.

OK, so to kinda bring me back where I started, will Openreach put in fibre for the whole street when they do the first On Demand order so that future customers just need a connection to the pole etc?

Doubt it will be the whole street, just to that pole but from that pole it can feed as many homes as that pole feeds

When installing fibre you never install a single fibre, you install multiple as until its tested you don't know if it works.

So probably will be some spares, for the next house or two, and then add some more by blowing it through the tubing.

First person is not going to underwrite the cost of the street, there will be an element of BT gambling on others taking it, unless your in an area of just one or two homes, when your costs will be higher.

Of course their share price may collapse, we get a new Government and all many of things change between now and 2013.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

First person is not going to underwrite the cost of the street, there will be an element of BT gambling on others taking it, unless your in an area of just one or two homes, when your costs will be higher.

Yeah wasn't thinking first mover effectively paid for the street, more that after the first mover future customers would get an easier quicker install as fibre would already be as close as the pole

In reply to a post by simon194:

Openreach are offering Fibre Voice Access now so the copper doesn't necessarily have to be used. There was a bit of a sticking point a while back with regards to the battery backup of the ONT because you have to be able to make phone calls if there is a power outage.

That's on native FTTP, and maybe only on greenfield lines?

We are talking about Fibre on Demand (FTTP) for FTTC areas and the service isn't even available yet. So I don't think we can say that the copper will be redundant.

It will depend on whether the FTTC handover at the exchange can handle voice. If it could, wouldn't OR have already made it available on FTTC, so freeing up e-side copper to be used where someone else's e-side needs pair-swapping? Plenty of cabinets are struggling to provide ADSLx-capable e-side lines. Some even PSTN.

There's also the complication that not all FTTC cabinets feed back to the associated copper line's exchange. So assuming that number retention was desired the number would need to be rerouted to the fibre headend exchange. Interesting!

Would the pole or joint chamber not have the passive splitter in it?

Would they do this at the FTTC CAB?

/speculation