In reply to a post by MoneyBagger:

Interesting. So do they pull out the existing wiring that goes from the cabinet to my master sockets or run fibre alongside the existing wiring?

No, the copper remains for voice service. New fibre is run to your property.

In reply to a post by Spasch:

In reply to a post by MoneyBagger:

Interesting. So do they pull out the existing wiring that goes from the cabinet to my master sockets or run fibre alongside the existing wiring?

No, the copper remains for voice service. New fibre is run to your property.

That's unless you take the Fibre Voice Access option then the copper isn't really needed but I'm not sure if it's being offered on residential services yet.

With Fibre Voice Access the existing copper is left in place.

Only locations in the UK where this will NOT be the case is

Ebbsfleet where the estate build is a pure fibre one and the Fibre Only Exchange trial locations (3 areas) where copper recovery will take place.

Oh - FOX is now in 3 locations? Where, other than Deddington?

And do we have an idea of what aspect it is about these that makes FOX an experiment worth trialling? If the trial gets considered successful, what kind of rollout would it herald?

I haven't yet got a good feel for what makes it worth turning a rural exchange into a fibre-only location (other, of course, than releasing the exchange building itself).

In reply to a post by WWWombat:

I haven't yet got a good feel for what makes it worth turning a rural exchange into a fibre-only location (other, of course, than releasing the exchange building itself).

It is possible to see implementation of ADSL all those years ago as a "lifeline" for the small rural exchanges as the distance between the CPE and the exchange became relevant again.

A fibre only exchange would provide an option (should BT wish to go that away) of replacing the small exchanges as the distance to the exchange would no longer be an issue as the fibre could be run "anywhere".

Whether BT has this in its plans I dont know but if they were to build a telephone network now from scratch they would not (hopefully) use copper and lots of small exchanges.

One of the problems is that the roll out of any non copper based network work be a huge undertaking and the early exchanges would be likely to suffer problems as subscribers wished to remain with their ADSL service.

BT have tried this before - remember TPON?

Deddington, Oxfordshire (NGA handover site: Banbury)
Pickmere, Cheshire (NGA handover site: Northwich)
Sutton, Cheshire (NGA handover site: Macclesfield)

TPON was conceived in the days before internet access for the masses was considered important, hence the dead end.

I am sure that BT plans to close off lots of exchanges once fibre backhaul for both voice and data is in place.

In reply to a post by greenglide:

One of the problems is that the roll out of any non copper based network work be a huge undertaking and the early exchanges would be likely to suffer problems as subscribers wished to remain with their ADSL service.

Surely if it suited the grand plan they could simply cap the profiles for anybody that didn't wish to upgrade to fibre speeds, obviously they would have to supply modems and do the installs FOC.

In reply to a post by greenglide:

It is possible to see implementation of ADSL all those years ago as a "lifeline" for the small rural exchanges as the distance between the CPE and the exchange became relevant again.

Absolutely. In terms of POTS, the rural exchanges were becoming nothing more than a shed to house a concentrator, and to terminate the backhaul to a "proper" exchange.

The optical kit nowadays will let that reduce to an underground jointbox, so long as it is within 18km (I think) of the main exchange - or, at least, the GEA handover node.

In this BT powerpoint, they talk of an exchange of the size of their Ipswich one (15k subscribers) changing from 900 racks (20CN, presumably System X + ADSL kit) down to 20 racks (for a 21CN MSAN) down to 1 rack (for what they term long-reach GPON). That's for a fair-sized market 3 exchange!

I can certainly see the technology, when fully applied, gives BT the option to do away with large amounts of exchange real estate.

The document above also showed the drop in power usage (from 800kW to 100W), which, I guess, is a fair drop in running costs.

I've also seen (associated with Ebbsfleet) a comment that maintenance of fibre is 10x easier than copper. Presumably the jointing is a more permanent solution, and perhaps the cables don't snap as much.

They're the benefits I can see, but the upgrade cost is the other matter. That must be huge, but I don't have any way to really compare the two sides of the balance.

The problem, as I see it, is that at some point in the future, we'll have a complete national fibre network. The problem for Openreach is how to do this (affordably) when your starting point is the copper network. The problem for anyone else (like Fujitsu) is how to do this when your starting point is nothing, *and* the competition has copper.

So - is FOX a proper part of the solution to this? Can BT afford this?

I think the trial *must* be part of the assessment as to the affordability of this.

BT have tried this before - remember TPON?

Exactly. Are we about to get 3 villages in a (different) dead-end solution?

In reply to a post by WWWombat:

The problem, as I see it, is that at some point in the future, we'll have a complete national fibre network. The problem for Openreach is how to do this (affordably) when your starting point is the copper network.

Surely that is what BT are doing now with FTTC and FTTP, the start of a complete fibre telecoms system, and the best part is they are effectivly getting large sums of money to upgrade some of the network, where they get BDUK funding. Then with FTTP on demand even the customers will be directly paying towards upgrading the network.

Eventually they may gradually upgrade more areas to full fibre, bit by bit spreading that massive cost out over the years.

In reply to a post by R0NSKI:

Then with FTTP on demand even the customers will be directly paying towards upgrading the network.

What a novel idea .