In reply to a post by ryant704:

1. Complain to your ISP that you didn't sign the contract for the current estimates,

That is an oxymoron unless the estimates are warranted to be accurate within a given tolerance; and they are not AFAIK.

Edited by deleted (Sat 13-Jul-13 14:54:57)

If that was the case, ISPs wouldn't use the 25% rule with them.

Ofcom requires ISP's to give accurate estimates of their broadband upon sale.

Edited by deleted (Sat 13-Jul-13 15:27:04)

I had a similiar drop in sync 4 months into my contract which is slightly still above my original estimate of up to 55mb. Seemed to happen just after my neighbor had their fttc service installed.

Bound to be in relation to crosstalk just hope there is no further drops.

roll on vectoring.

Edited by deleted (Sat 13-Jul-13 16:36:03)

In reply to a post by Icemansin:

The only thing is that they were basing this off the new estimates provided not the ones that were given when I first signed up to BT Infinity.

I guess I'm just stuck now right?

I recall seeing some slides from one of BT's meetings with ISPs, dating back to 2010 or 2011, for the "fibre trial working group". The issue of estimates came up, with an answer that implied that BT would be getting the estimates more accurate (which looked like *raising* them), and stated an aim of making sure that the estimates allowed for 1-2 years of crosstalk growth.

I say that only to point out that the field of crosstalk, growth, and estimates is a fluid one. In reality (because no-one is immune from the laws of physics), we unfortunately need to accept that there is nothing to be done (yet) about crosstalk. And that means we need to be realistic about those estimates too - a sudden spurt of take-up can have a nastier-than-expected impact.

If there were a fault, then that is a different matter. But it appears there isn't one - or at least not a detectable one.

So, yes, IMO, you are stuck. At least until vectoring comes along.

If you wanted to push it further, you could try. But to what end? To ditch the contract, or to get a faster speed? The latter seems unlikely.

In reply to a post by Icemansin:

So the BT Openreach engineer came round today and did a few checks and as expected, no problem was found on the line. He did mention that the underground cabling in the area wasn't the best as there is a mixture of both Aluminium and Copper.

He then rang and reported the results to someone and was told not to investigate further as I'm within the estimates provided. The only thing is that they were basing this off the new estimates provided not the ones that were given when I first signed up to BT Infinity.

I guess I'm just stuck now right?

Send a report to the ASA, it will do nothing for you now but they wont be pleased that BT dont use the estimates at point of sale.

thats ok for new customers but changing the estimate for a line post sale and then using the new estimate to determine acceptable performance is a breach of contract.

But even if it is a breach of contract, the appropriate course of action for the sufferer is what?

A very big IF it is a breach of contract.

Speeds dropping because of cross talk is one thing, speeds dropping because an ISP throttles everyone to 27.232Mbps would be another very different case.

If people need and want guaranteed speeds, then different technology and pricing will be needed. Unless the guaranteed speeds are very low.

It will be just crosstalk.

Crosstalk is not gradual. So you can join in, an extra 100 users can join up around you and create no crosstalk.
Then the 101th customer signs up, this customer alone can cause a huge amount of crosstalk and a huge drop in sync. Crosstalks so random and all it takes is that one customer to cause it.

Most people believe crosstalk builds up. E.g. 1 customer added, bit more crosstalk, 10 added, little more, 20 added a little more. That's wrong. It's immediate and usually caused by one source. Once you get it there's little you can do.

The estimate of 60 is pretty spot on with your 57. The estimates take into account crosstalk. 57 is still a very good speed and if using wireless 2.4ghz I doubt you'll see a real world difference as 57 is still pushing the limits of the WiFi.

I don't think this is a breech of contract. There's not a guaranteed speed by the ISP, it's a best effort. The estimate is fairly correct. You have to pay far far more for guaranteed speeds.

Edited by ukhardy07 (Sun 14-Jul-13 16:46:43)

In reply to a post by Chrysalis:

thats ok for new customers but changing the estimate for a line post sale and then using the new estimate to determine acceptable performance is a breach of contract.

Is it really a breach of contract?

I don't see anything in the terms & conditions (I'm looking specifically at BT's Infinity product) that there is *any* level of acceptable performance specified, whether relative to the estimate or not. In fact, there isn't even a statement that relates actual performance to the estimated performance.

I'm surprised, I must say. I thought I'd find something more than I did, but the text only states:

In reference to www.productsandservices.bt.com/consumerOrders/control/termsandcondi...:

The service we agree to give you includes [...] a high-speed fibre broadband service. Your speed will be estimated at the time of placing the order and will be the fastest speed your line can support.

It is hard to argue against this bit: "Your speed [...] will be the fastest speed your line can support."