That doesn't wash at all. Almost all the EU rules in this respect were modelled on UK privitisations and for the most part opposed by everyone else in the EU because they challenged longstanding national monopolies.

We couldn't have begged for a better deal were it not for the fact that we are woefully inadequate when it comes to exploiting such opportunities.

New Zealand has a population of 4.5 million and a 30GB download allowance on FTTC is £42.50pm.

Great .

All that may be true, but according to Bill this changes the laws of physics too. Can I therefore reasonably expect to find a Higgs Boson hiding in plain sight in Peru without building the equivalent of the LHC just outside Lima?

Edited by Desmond (Sat 25-Jan-14 01:53:49)

Why are you arguing with us when you know SFA? Go and argue your case with your MP and the regulators.

Or are you just trolling?

Higgs Bosons are all around you and in you, also would be in Peru.

Not the point either. The question was could you find one.

As long as it does not crystalise in to dendrites!

In reply to a post by jchamier:

In reply to a post by johnjburness:

but I really DON'T get it!

Most people who haven't done radio comms, won't get it sadly. Its complicated.

Have a look at this page, at the third document, ND1602, and download the PDF:
http://www.niccstandards.org.uk/publications/llu_spe...

You'll find its a 42 page document, and should tell you why. (Its not something I understand, and MrSaffron might be one of the few here who can explain the salient points, the summary in my first post is the high level !).

Have to be honest to say that I haven't studied the document completely, but it does give a useful diagram (Figure 1 � Application of the ANFP), on Pg 7.

This categorises circuits according to configuration. For an "EO" cct you are directed to "Part D" - which simply re-directs you back to "Part A" which covers full "metallic cables" (generally it means "copper") from Exchange to Consumer (albeit via a Cabinet) - in other words it is automatically assuming a relatively long line!

I really couldn't see any explanation why short EO Lines (with the Modem/DSLAM located in the Exchange) could not be treated in a similar fashion to Short Cabinet Lines (where the Modem/DSLAM is located in the Cabinet).

TBH, from this quote within the document ("It is for future study whether for these EO lines, an enhanced PSD Mask specification can be produced and agreed that would allow the use of higher frequencies than those allowed in Part A taking account that there is no SLCP for connection of transmission equipment"), it seems to me that EO VDSL hasn't yet been really considered!


Edited to add:-
ps:-
I have studied Radio Comms, etc, albeit many, many moons ago (hence not upto speed on latest technology). Obviously I understand things such as Cross-Talk, variable Propagation Delays, etc.

Edited by deleted (Sat 25-Jan-14 08:28:31)

In reply to a post by Desmond:

Feel free to explain why other countries have no problem installing VDSL kit inside their exchanges.

I realise that you're not in the habit of providing links so that others can verify your assertions and that the UK is invariably behind the rest of the world in its widespread provision of high speed broadband, but I'd like to see evidence of that.

The only ones I can find, whilst not explicitly denying what you say, imply that they are not doing so¹ but, unlike some on this bbs, I'm prepared to admit that I may be wrong. Provided that good evidence, not hearsay, is supplied.


¹ eg

In reference to point-topic.com/free-analysis/vdsl-broadband-in-superfast-europe/:

�Distance from the cabinet� reflects the fact that DSL performance falls off sharply with distance. Street cabinets in urban areas usually have all their users within a few hundred metres, which is fine. But there are always exceptions and, in rural areas particularly, individual properties, even whole villages, may be at the end of cables which are kilometres long.

The best way to address all these issues will be to build new networks, or network segments, to fill the gaps and bring distant users within VDSL range of a fibre point-of-presence. Such networks will require extending fibre, whether all the way to the home or reverting to copper for the last few metres.

- See more at: http://point-topic.com/free-analysis/vdsl-broadband-...

In reply to a post by johnjburness:

I really couldn't see any explanation why short EO Lines (with the Modem/DSLAM located in the Exchange) could not be treated in a similar fashion to Short Cabinet Lines (where the Modem/DSLAM is located in the Cabinet).

I think the point is that you can't look at VDSL in isolation- like it or not there's a lot of ADSL gear still around. VDSL equipment inside the exchange would be physically close to ADSL equipment serving other users.

Thus the (relatively) powerful outgoing VDSL signals would interfere with the (much weaker) incoming ADSL signals, some of which may be coming from very long lines, and degrade the performance of those lines to an unacceptable degree.

This doesn't apply to an FTTC cabinet which (obviously) doesn't contain any ADSL equipment, and probably wouldn't apply to a VDSL-only exchange if such a thing were ever built.