It's possible i belive yes ,some are doing it without issues, But if you are going to be paying £30.00 per month i would go for zen personally, sky support isnt the best , and they choose the stable DLM profile over the Speed option, So this may or maynot have an affect on latency and top end speed or it may not, depands on how much interference or crosstalk there is on the line, if impacted the dlm may recact more severely on a stable profile than it would if set to speed , zen from info i've read on here iirc suggests they use the openreach speed option as aparently do plusnet, not sure on BT they don't tend to be very forthcoming with any info though but the choice is yours at the end of the day

Highest max throughput sky lowest seems to be Plusnet
Openreach GEA DLM Profile Sky select stable Plusnet & Zen and possibly others select Speed, Plusnet is the only ISP to use a second IP profile and use traffic prioritisation price plusnet is the cheapest But charge for install £50 if bb only 18mth min term zen 12mths min term Sky may now be 18mths min term was 12mths But they also require you to pay them line rental so would become fully unbundled ,

Edited by tommy45 (Fri 18-Apr-14 21:55:04)

sky's £20, my line can barely hit the max speeds on 40/10 so im not going to go for pro (80/20)

You say sky has max throughput, but plusnet and zen are on speed, how does that work out then?

Also, due to my line being so long (its interleaved on bt infinity 40/10 atm) i wonder what would be more beneficial for my ping times and might allow the dlm to reduce the level of interleave on my line, speed or stable.

Sky will give a higher throughput PPPOA all the others use PPPOE as far as i'm aware
Probably down to how the BTwholesale network is set up
Zen and other isp's don't use a second IP profile ,So their customers see headline speeds nearer to that of those on sky FTTC that have the same max 40/10 or 80/20 sync rates than customers of Plusnet who's speeds tend to be a lower due to that second IP profile and the way their traffic management works or is configured to work,

The Speed that i refereed One of 3 BTopenreach GEA DLM profiles that all ISP's can choose from at the time that they place an FTTC order, Sky unlike Plusnet &Zen and possibly other isp's too ,appear to have chosen the stable option over the speed option
here's an explanation of what each option represents or is supposed to represent
Each DLM profile will have different parameters, So in theory the Speed profile should mean that DLM is less aggressive if it intervened or & maybe less likely to intervene, than if set to the stable or standard profiles

In reference to www.openreach.co.uk/orpg/home/products/super-fastfibreaccess/fibret...:

Dynamic Line Management (DLM) features
Match the way a line is managed to the way
your customer uses it:
�R Standard ¡V best overall balance
between speed and stability for general
internet users

Stable ¡V prioritise stability over speed for
IPTV videoconferencing, home workers
and businesses transferring data and IPTV

Speed ¡V prioritise speed over stability for
online gamers

There was some confusion regarding these BTOR GEA profiles and those that BTWholesale use, Standard, Stable, Super Stable profiles

BTW "Standard" = Openreach "Speed"
BTW "Stable" = Openreach "Standard"
BTW "Superstable" = Openreach "Stable"
Why on earth they couldn't use the same naming is anyones guess

I'm not sure that 2011 document is still valid in that respect tommy. There is no mention of those Openreach options in the SIN 498 description of their DLM. As I remember it, in earlier versions there was.

Edited by RobertoS (Sat 19-Apr-14 00:52:15)

In reply to a post by tommy45:

Sky will give a higher throughput PPPOA all the others use PPPOE as far as i'm aware

Sky don't use PPPoA on their fibre products, they use MAC Encapsulated Routing (MER) with DHCP Option 60 for authentication.

WBC fttc Handbook feb 2014 appears to mention the same DLM profiles being available to ISP's , It maybe that they omitted it, I'm sure finding out if the 3 available DLM profiles are still avaiable or not wouldn't be too hard ,as there are a few ISP's who post on here that are transparent in some of the techincal details of the services they provide

In reply to a post by simon194:

In reply to a post by tommy45:

Sky will give a higher throughput PPPOA all the others use PPPOE as far as i'm aware

Sky don't use PPPoA on their fibre products, they use MAC Encapsulated Routing (MER) with DHCP Option 60 for authentication.

Only on the exchanges that have their newer SVBN LLU kit installed, on the other's with legacy easynet llu kit installed they will use PPPOA most likely, but either encapsulation provides more throughput than PPPOE the MTU is different also

Edited by tommy45 (Sat 19-Apr-14 01:45:18)

In reply to a post by tommy45:

Plusnet is ok if you don't mind being sold a little say upto 5mbps shy on DS throughput,for some FTTC customers ,
Due to Plusnet having a second IP profile that is always set slightly lower than what BT's is set to, coupled with the way their traffic prioritisation works ,

Apparently it's not a case of just speedtests recording a lower speed results due to some buffer ect, but the atcual throughput is around 3% less than what BT ,ZEN ,and other BTW based customers see on FTTC services, the percentage is slightly greater if compared to sky's GEA FTTC because they use PPPOA instead of PPPOE

I've had both full 80/20 FTTC with Sky and Plusnet so I know first hand about the speed differences (mentioned earlier on). The gap isn't that large, but yeah I'd prefer I was getting the same speed. It costs less and only a few meg less so I'm happy.

In reply to a post by tommy45:

Apparently it's not a case of just speedtests recording a lower speed results due to some buffer ect, but the atcual throughput is around 3% less than what BT ,ZEN ,and other BTW based customers see on FTTC services, the percentage is slightly greater if compared to sky's GEA FTTC because they use PPPOA instead of PPPOE

They don't use PPPoA on FTTC, they use MER for AAA, like simon194 said.

Yes PN do use a secondary IP profile and it is usually only slightly less than your sync speed, mine currently seems to have not updated on my last resync, which was so quick that it barely registered on my ping monitor.

Any way my PN IP Profile is 47.2mb, and my sync speed was 48884 Kbps, since my resync my sync speed is 46052 and I'm getting 43.14 Mbps. That missing speed is probably network overheads etc. Either way it makes no real difference, the connection feels very fast and responsive.

Oh, PN use traffic prioritisation, not traffic management there is a difference.

The difference in throughput does tend to differ, from what i have read it's the people with syncs 80/20 who loose out the most the max
BT ip profile seems to be 77.44 but plusnet's is 77.4 , which would appear negligible,

But no one would appear to be able to get the same speeds on plusnet as they have /would do if they where with BT retail or other isp, like for like. seems to be around the 3mbps mark or higher for some ,works of at a difference of 3-4% , 3mbps per FTTC customer is a lot of data ,

Edited by tommy45 (Sat 19-Apr-14 10:54:06)