Your ISP may well have the evidence that your line synced higher, I know Plusnet would have.

Thanks Zarjaz and also note RONSKI's comments - I am also with plusnet.

Would the following help my case in establishing that the current profile is NOT normal for my line (see plusnet diagnostics and their comments near the end of this)?

I have some 18,000 graphs and log files archived from DSLStats back to 26th Feb that show my line syncing at 60Mbps initally (but with too many errors to survive that for too long) plus all the changes since.... Here are a few extracts (I have the graphs to match with date stamps)

(BTW, this isn't the modem BT supplied for the install - in fact the contractor didn't bring one in with him as he didn't think one was wanted, luckily I already had one from ebay! He did poke aound in his van at the end and dig out an ECI one that is still in its box.)

Installed 22nd Feb 2014

25th Feb
Status: Showtime
Retrain Reason:	0
Max:	Upstream rate = 14932 Kbps, Downstream rate = 60968 Kbps
Path:	0, Upstream rate = 14841 Kbps, Downstream rate = 59613 Kbps

1st March
Status: Showtime
Retrain Reason:	0
Max:	Upstream rate = 13657 Kbps, Downstream rate = 60516 Kbps
Path:	0, Upstream rate = 13407 Kbps, Downstream rate = 59737 Kbps

5th March  - DLM had intervened
Status: Showtime
Retrain Reason:	0
Max:	Upstream rate = 13398 Kbps, Downstream rate = 62272 Kbps
Path:	0, Upstream rate = 13231 Kbps, Downstream rate = 53188 Kbps

11th March
Status: Showtime
Retrain Reason:	0
Max:	Upstream rate = 12723 Kbps, Downstream rate = 63644 Kbps
Path:	0, Upstream rate = 12877 Kbps, Downstream rate = 55130 Kbps

26th March
Status: Showtime
Retrain Reason:	0
Max:	Upstream rate = 10395 Kbps, Downstream rate = 60024 Kbps
Path:	0, Upstream rate = 10932 Kbps, Downstream rate = 51381 Kbps

1st April
Max:	Upstream rate = 10006 Kbps, Downstream rate = 58752 Kbps
Path:	0, Upstream rate = 10932 Kbps, Downstream rate = 51381 Kbps

1st May
Max:	Upstream rate = 9684 Kbps, Downstream rate = 57436 Kbps
Path:	0, Upstream rate = 9693 Kbps, Downstream rate = 49084 Kbps

Below is is the start of the 40 days up at approx the same sync speed
8th May 
Max:	Upstream rate = 10605 Kbps, Downstream rate = 52740 Kbps
Path:	0, Upstream rate = 10641 Kbps, Downstream rate = 45122 Kbps

1st June
Max:	Upstream rate = 10405 Kbps, Downstream rate = 54120 Kbps
Path:	0, Upstream rate = 10671 Kbps, Downstream rate = 46159 Kbps

10th June
Max:	Upstream rate = 9728 Kbps, Downstream rate = 53732 Kbps
Path:	0, Upstream rate = 10671 Kbps, Downstream rate = 46159 Kbps

15th June
Max:	Upstream rate = 9663 Kbps, Downstream rate = 53604 Kbps
Path:	0, Upstream rate = 10671 Kbps, Downstream rate = 46159 Kbps

19th June
Max:	Upstream rate = 9978 Kbps, Downstream rate = 52956 Kbps
Path:	0, Upstream rate = 10671 Kbps, Downstream rate = 46159 Kbps

20th June after 'event''
Max:	Upstream rate = 9716 Kbps, Downstream rate = 40472 Kbps
Path:	0, Upstream rate = 9742 Kbps, Downstream rate = 35104 Kbps

and there it has stayed.

HERE is the plusnet diagnostic report. The comments with it are:

Thanks for raising this to our attention.

I've just run through a full set of intrusive faults testing on your broadband service and found that everything appears to be fine and within limits. You're not affected by the banding of the line and all tests completed with a pass result as shown below.

If you would like to progress this then you can raise a fault and we'll take a look into this for you however the likelihood of this being returned as no fault found by BTW would be very high.

From which I assume they never bothered to look back at any stats and don't appear to be particularly interested in the problem? I did ask why it was so sudden if no fault and why the plusnet profile dropped first but no response yet.

In fact, the profiles were out of sync for at least 36 hours (plusnet 34, BT tester 45 with 2 of the BTW tests I did showing the line speed in red and below par) before I restarted the modem on the following Monday morning and they then matched (wrong way round unfortunately)

I don't understand the 'Crosstalk not detected' report testing. So why the gradual drop from 50Mbps down to 42Mbps over a couple of months? And neighbours are still getting 40-44 around me.

They do have evidence of the higher sync spreed but it seems this particular engineer has a fixation on their current estimated speed for my line which is 55 Mbps (the original estimate when I got fibre 2 years ago was 65 Mbps).

The current 55 Mbps seems to have been derived from the average of the two low values from the checker (63 and 47) with the engineer saying if the sync speed is +/- 5 Mbps then it's OK, which according to him is Openreach's policy when dealing with estimated sync speeds.

In reply to a post by tbailey2:

I don't understand the 'Crosstalk not detected' report testing. So why the gradual drop from 50Mbps down to 42Mbps over a couple of months? And neighbours are still getting 40-44 around me.

I had a very similar report from Plusnet when I first reported reduced speeds.

Visiting engineer notes & Plusnet's own notes confirmed the diagnosis of increased crosstalk, but the table in my fault ticket also showed "Not detected".

Plusnet did admit that that particular test is not perfect & the result that nothing was detected means just that - the test didn't detect it.
However, it doesn't actually mean that there is none present.

As it has 'stolen' around 33% of my connection's previous capability, there clearly is an issue.



BT's response?

They reduced my speed estimates so that I'm no longer more than 25% below estimated speed!!!!!!!!!!

In reply to a post by Bald_Eagle1:

BT's response?

They reduced my speed estimates so that I'm no longer more than 25% below estimated speed!!!!!!!!!!

That's pretty much what they do unfortunately. As my fixated engineer said the data is uploaded from the JDSU and if there aren't any faults the estimates get updated in a few days.

It's now a lose-lose situation for customers because line faults causing reduced sync speeds are going to just get passed as acceptable. I wonder how many new fibre customers are having to accept lower speeds just because of this.

Thanks to all who replied - the latest reply on the plusnet forum is laughable and shows that he hasn't even bothered to read the details I gave in the first place, probably a cut and paste job from the 101 Reasons Why chart .

I'll just end up going in circles and get more and more ***** off if I pursue this. Still no explanation of why the two profles weren't in sync for some time.

What I may well do is have another FTTC connection put on my other line from another ISP and see what that does - okay it's the same derived feed but it's a different pair. Then decide when the contracts run out.

Did I hear it's self install now on all flavours of FTTC?

In reply to a post by tbailey2:

Thanks to all who replied - the latest reply on the plusnet forum is laughable and shows that he hasn't even bothered to read the details I gave in the first place, probably a cut and paste job from the 101 Reasons Why chart .

Can you provide a link to that thread?
If so, I'll have a read of it all.

Hi

It's HERE. I'd call it patronising but maybe I'm too close to it....

simon I have had all sorts of stories, my view is they make it up as they go along to suit their argument of the day.

When i was on adsl I had a engineer sync below the FTR of the line and then blatantly ignore it and say pretty much "tough luck, it is what it is". Granted the line was heavily snrm'd and interleaved at the tinme pushing it down but was still below the FTR.

On FTTC when plusnet were sending me engineer after engineer, I had varying responses.

The first guy said the estimated speeds were meaningless, and that my 72-73 estimate was for when you next door to cabinet. He kept saying its up to 72-73 not 72-73. When I told him I think the ASA would have an issue with that statement he looked like he wanted to punch me.
Other engineer swere much more polite but all but one were persisting that speeds around what I was getting on their visit was "within spec" they kept using the phrase "within spec". At the time I had a sync below 60 on a 73 estimate which is over your +/- 5mbit.

I had engineers telling me 80mbit is FTTP only. Also that an attainable cannot go over 80, impossible. All but one insisted 76(80) is a technical limit not a openreach cap.

The one guy who seemed to know something is up was acting like his hands were tied, he kept saying things like i cannot do anything unless the JDSU tells me.

Finally when I told plusnet to stop the engineers, unless they could send a speed boost guy out as after all thats what I wanted not an SFI, plusnet told me this.

They told me they dont do speed boost engineers on FTTC but are currently working on a business case to do so.
When I asked what sync speed I would need to be "outside of spec", I was told under 40mbit. Which is over 30mbit below my estimate.
Also on my support ticket notes there appeared to be what looked like a response from BTw/openreach stating a refusal to do a pair swap on my line on the basis it will make things worse for other customers, which suggested to me BT were aware of issues on the local loop in my area and moving customers around triggers those issues, e.g. there might be excessive crosstalk in my area, and if I got moved someone else would probably raise a fault when they get a huge drop in speed.

Point of my post, is the reasonings given for a refusal to act were not consistent. The impression I get is excuses are made up on an ongoing basis.

Also regarding the line test results plusnet provide.

My sync speed has dropped from an attainable peak of 110 down to 64-72 (at 6db snrm fast path) and that test reports "no crosstalk detected", meaning either crosstalk isnt my issue or the test isnt reliable at detecting crosstalk.

Edited by Chrysalis (Tue 01-Jul-14 20:38:30)