In reply to a post by youngsyp:

It clearly states that the NTE5 (master socket) is the OR demarcation point (page 25 bottom most paragraph).

Yes, I know for sure I saw a document once that said differently (that the demarcation point was the modem's Ethernet socket), but I didn't keep a link to it and it probably pre-dated that one�

Up to date is better

In reply to a post by billford:

In reply to a post by youngsyp:

It clearly states that the NTE5 (master socket) is the OR demarcation point (page 25 bottom most paragraph).

Yes, I know for sure I saw a document once that said differently (that the demarcation point was the modem's Ethernet socket), but I didn't keep a link to it and it probably pre-dated that one�

Up to date is better

As to ownership of the modem, page 31 para 7.6 "Cease of WBC FTTC" indicates that the active NTE (modem) should be returned to Openreach.

Obviously my information is more up to date than an old confidential document. There is a reason these documents are confidential

Could the document you saw have been for FTTP? I could see the LAN port being the demarcation there as BT will not allow people to plug in their own devices to the fibre itself.

In reply to a post by ian72:

BT will not allow people to plug in their own devices to the fibre itself.

Do you have any evidence to back up that statement?

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

Obviously my information is more up to date than an old confidential document. There is a reason these documents are confidential

As we move inexorably towards a wires only install, who owns the active NTE becomes irrelevant , I agree.

If you could post more up to date info please do.

I'm pretty sure it was FTTC, I don't think domestic FTTP was much more than a gleam in somebody's eye at the time

But even if my memory is 100% accurate (by no means guaranteed ), BT are quite entitled to change their mind. Using the Ethernet port as the demarcation point may have made sense on paper but it's unenforceable in practice, the change may have been simply an acknowledgement of reality.

I can't find any direct evidence but given that BT provide the ONT (ie the equivalent of the modem) for all new provides and require (or at least according to some trial information from BT and Plusnet) it to be screwed to the wall to avoid damage to the fibre then I would be surprised if they currently allow end user fibre ONTs to be used in place of it.

For business leased lines BT tend to provide the terminating equipment rather than present a direct fibre to the user.

I also suspect BT would do it this way as it gives them control over the termination to monitor the fibre which they may not be able to do with user provided equipment.

The user can of course then provide their own Ethernet router to connect to the ONT.

EDIT : Found the BT SIN for FTTP - section 3.4 states:

The ONT is owned by Openreach and represents the demarcation of the WBC FTTP product within the premise and is the point into which the CP will need to connect their own Customer Premises Equipment (CPE).

Edited by ian72 (Thu 14-Aug-14 12:53:19)

In reply to a post by ian72:

EDIT : Found the BT SIN for FTTP - section 3.4 states:

The ONT is owned by Openreach and represents the demarcation of the WBC FTTP product within the premise and is the point into which the CP will need to connect their own Customer Premises Equipment (CPE).

Thanks

GEA-FTTC and GEA-FTTP specification docs have existed for the same length of time.