The BT Wholesale IP Profile doesn't apply to Sky or TalkTalk FTTC. I'm not sure about all Zen FTTC.

But Sky & TalkTalk still with DLM thought.

As Roberto says fibre is a fixed speed product. DLM is only required where a product speed is variable - FTTP isn't so no DLM should be necessary. Obviously the D stands for Dynamic and there is nothing that is "dynamic" in that way with FTTP.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

The BT Wholesale IP Profile doesn't apply to Sky or TalkTalk FTTC. I'm not sure about all Zen FTTC.

Zen buy GEA-FTTC from Openreach and connect to their own MSAN if they have presence - so there's no BT Wholesale BRAS profile as BT Wholesale are not involved. If they do not have presence, they use BT Wholesale WBMC (with a BT Wholesale BRAS Profile).

Existing customers are moved from BT Wholesale to the Zen network as the Zen network is rolled out. I was moved to the Zen network on 1 October. Zen customers can see which network they are on using the "View Line Data" option in the customer portal - it says "Your current line technology is GEA FTTC" for people on the Zen network and "Your current line technology is WBMC" for people connected via BT Wholesale.

Welcome back

Hi David.

Good to see you back . If you've been ill, I hope you are much recovered. If you just got fed up with the place, that wouldn't surprise me.

The reason I worded my post that way is that since the initial announcement of 200 or so exchanges we don't seem to have heard anything. So I had no idea how far their rollout had got.

The way the announcement read as well, it didn't sound like LLU as we know it, with MSANs. What does your exchange show on samknows for Zen Internet?

Thanks for the welcome back, Bob and BatBoy. I disappeared for a while due to commitments demanding what strength I had available. I will probably be in and out, but it's good to drop by again and see so many familiar names on screen.


Samknows doesn't show Zen as having unbundled my exchange - they're showing nothing beyond the original c. 200 exchanges. I was rather surprised to find my FTTC had switched to the Zen network, as I hadn't imagined we were on the list for Zen's roll out. Indeed, I wasn't aware that Zen were continuing to unbundle exchanges beyond the original 200.

This is an area where Virgin arrived long before any ADSL. None of neighbouring exchanges are amongst the original list of 200 where Zen have presence. As there was no Openreach GEA-FTTx on any neighbouring exchanges when this exchange was enabled, I would be surprised if the handover point was remote from the exchange. Samknows says the exchange has c. 7000 residential premises and c. 200 non-residential premises.


Zen are deploying an MPLS network. From what I understand from discussion here and on Zen's own forums, Zen's MSANs are being used to provide leased line services, as well as EFM (not sure whether they use EFM line cards in the MSAN and rent MPFs from Openreach, or rent an EFM circuit from Openreach) and services over GEA-FTTx. The MSANs are capable of ADSL2+ and voice if the appropriate line cards are fitted. I believe Zen are already providing LLU ADSL2+ using SMPF. Eventually, they will be capable of offering full LLU using MPF using this equipment.

I stress that the information in the previous paragraph is my understanding of the situation, which could be incorrect.


If the plan is indeed to offer full LLU using MPF, this would explain why Zen are so keen to sell the current FTTx products as 'voice plus broadband' bundles. It also seems that Zen's business plans involve reducing their dependence on BT Wholesale to a considerable extent.

I suspect this is partly why native IPv6 appears to be on the backburner - there are other areas of the business demanding the available engineering resources. Those of us who want IPv6 can always tunnel to SixXS or Hurricane Electric. My SixXS tunnel is capable of full 80/20 line speed.


I've finally got round to ditching BT Retail voice service. Those who recall my postings around the time of the last BT Retail price rise will remember how close I was to leaving, and the latest price rises are just too much. The voice service on the line with Zen FTTC and another line I still use with no broadband service moves to Zen next week.

Edited by deleted (Fri 24-Oct-14 22:03:19)