In reply to a post by zom22:

So I'm going to remind people over and over again how bad it was when it WAS in public ownership.
Like the 2 weeks plus it took to rejoin a broken wire in my cab two which 2 people turned up to do the repair.
Like the 6 month wait for a new phone line.

Nothing has changed - it's taken me 6 months to get a line installed for a customer recently - yes, there was some actual work to be done that wasn't 100% straightforward, but once they finally were pushed to do it, it took 2 weeks to go from "can't be done" to "being installed" - and of course as I have no choice whatsoever, I had to play this game for a customer.

It goes without saying, if I could pick between multiple infrastructure providers, I'd get my lines installed quicker because every provider that doesn't get it sorted effectively suddenly doesn't get any business. Right now, BT Openreach doesn't have any actual competition in the majority of places.

So we do need a solution where Openreach has to face real competition by some means - and not just in a few areas - cherry picked out by them and the bigger players.

I'm not sure that I know what the solution is, or whether anything proposed hits the spot, but it is broken right now.

so where do you think the circa ira 4bn that has been invested as part of the commercial and match funding for BDUK came from !!!!

But BT Group has supposedly been running Openreach in a ring-fenced manner any way -- you been listiening to too many consipray theory -- not true / not fact

In reply to a post by Fastman2:

so where do you think the circa ira 4bn that has been invested as part of the commercial and match funding for BDUK came from !!!!

Yup, though that £2bn of taxpayers' BDUK cash arguably wasn't value for money.

Besides, with the BT board now saying it is suspending any further investment in fibre broadband while the Ofcom review is ongoing, it means BDUK funding will be the only investment!

What am unholy mess BT has created.

In reply to a post by therioman:

I'm not sure that I know what the solution is, or whether anything proposed hits the spot, but it is broken right now.

Certainly there are issues over how BT-OR is set up & operates, but there is a danger that going for the first available alternative arrangement (on an "anything-must-be-better" basis) could prove to an even more screwed-up arrangement.

For any Company/Organisation (or any system) there are always both negative & positive aspects. Often, changing things simply does that - changes things - without any net improvement (aka some details are improved, but other details are made worse).

Hence, it is essential to come up with any alternative that genuinely improves the situation - NOT just simply the "head-buried-in-sand-mentality" of "anything-must-be-better"!

In reply to a post by edwincluck:

What am unholy mess BT has created.

BT created - you mean OFCOM.

Remember, BT is OWNED by shareholders and is answerable to them.

BT's board, articulated by CEO Gavin Patterson, has decided to have a temper-tantrum over the Ofcom review of its business; a review that could potentially conclude by ordering the spin-off of its Openreach division.

It's little short of blackmail: BT intends to cease all fibre investment, while Ofcom's once-in-a-decade review is ongoing.

If that's not blackmail of the nation, then what it?

Perhaps the best plan would be to re-write the BDUK contract with BT. All those fibre cabinets purchased and installed with public money, should remain in public hands.

Though surely it's easier just to nationalise Openreach. They've screwed-up in so many ways - vis-a-vis the G.Inp and G.vector fiasco, the corporation is not responsible enough, nor competent enough, to participate in the BDUK project.

Edited by deleted (Tue 21-Jul-15 09:09:39)

The Government did not want to invest in te UK telecoms network. The Government sold off BT and took the money. Shareholders invested in the company and shareholders funds have paid for most of the BT investment since privatisation.


It is not a temper tantrum at all, he is protecting the owners of the company - those people who put him there. If the Government decided they were going to CPO your house, would you install a new kitchen or bathroom?

The BDUK investment is a small part when compared to the total investment BT has made - measurable in low single figure percentages and they are not totally publicly funded they are split funding. BT is not making a profit on those - they though, were prepared to invest whereas Sky, Virgin, TalkTalk and all the others were not interested.


IT IS OFCOM WHO HAVE CAUSED THIS, NO ONE ELSE.

If a Corbyn-led Labour Party looked as if it might win the next election, on a policy of nationalising all housing, (now there's a thought), would you buy a bigger, better house or spend money on a nice extension any time during the election campaign? Or would you sit on your money?

LOL - Snap!