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Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Sat 25-Jul-15 22:13:18
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Re: Vodafone promises to invest in spun-off Openreach


[re: deleted] [link to this post]
 
Dedicated thread.

The indispensable man or woman passes from the scene, and what happens next is more or less the same thing as was happening before.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync 57676/14040kbps @ 600m. - BQM
Standard User deleted
(deleted) Sat 25-Jul-15 22:43:42
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Vodafone issues ultimatum over Openreach


[re: deleted] [link to this post]
 
Bit more in the Evening Standard (Fri July 24) on the urgency to breaking-up BT Group..

From: http://www.standard.co.uk/business/business-news/vod...

Vodafone CEO issues a three-pronged ultimatum to BT Group:

..[Vodafone] Chief executive Vittorio Colao... launched an attack on BT and its ownership of Openreach, the network business which the regulator Ofcom recently said could have to be separated from BT.

Vodafone, like Sky and TalkTalk, has to use Openreach to deliver its broadband to customers in their homes.

"It is a classic case of a monopoly company holding the country to ransom,� said Colao.

�We are used to that across Europe but don�t really expect it in the UK. BT�s priority seems to be buying more expensive football content rather than investing in the fibre network this country needs.�

[...]

He wants Ofcom chief executive Sharon White to recommend a break-up of BT, but if she doesn�t he has three demands for an improved Openreach :-

* �There must be access to fibre and ducts at a reasonable price,� he said.

* �The service provided by Openreach must become world class, not the mediocre service we get now. "; and

* "Access to content for everyone must be at a decent rather than exorbitant price.�
Standard User deleted
(deleted) Sat 25-Jul-15 23:18:28
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Re: Vodafone issues ultimatum over Openreach


[re: deleted] [link to this post]
 
I do believe Openreach perhaps should be broken up but there really is nothing to stop Vodafone rolling out their own fibre network...


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Standard User Chrysalis
(legend) Sun 26-Jul-15 00:25:48
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Re: Vodafone promises to invest in spun-off Openreach


[re: deleted] [link to this post]
 
g.fast over the next 10 years doesnt fill me with excitement, I say split it off.

Are BT trying to claim circa 400m a year investment is a lot?

Sky Fibre Pro BQM - IPv4
Standard User 69bertie
(learned) Sun 26-Jul-15 09:59:21
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Re: Vodafone promises to invest in spun-off Openreach


[re: Chrysalis] [link to this post]
 
I think the writing is on the wall for Openreach. People might argue against it but it is quite understandable that people think that Openreach and BT act as one. After all, even if they don't, they both have the same parent company. You really trying to tell me that they don't ever talk to one another on the next up and coming advance. As for the consequences of hiving off Openreach, not much different from National Grid. Has the electricity supply fallen over yet since that happened. Nope. You'd get the same result with Openreach being on it's own. Shareholders can be a pain, they can be a blessing but given the recent report that too much money (percentage wise) is being paid out to shareholders generally by a lot of companies with investment suffering as a result, maybe a break up wouldn't be such a bad idea.

And someone mentioned that the old PO setup used to take weeks to do anything. Even Openreach took over 6 months to get my phone line reconnected. Reason? Lack of infrastructure investment at the local level. And of course, millions of £££ have been paid out from Government sources via BDUK to pay for the upgrades in many places around the UK. Even though fibre hasn't quite got here (they put the cabinet in place last week) I do know that if the government (and the EU) hadn't coughed up the money, we'd still be waiting for some sort of modernisation of anything if Openreach/BT had their way. Sometimes to have to lose money to make it.

The current setup has had its day.
Standard User Pgre
(experienced) Sun 26-Jul-15 10:57:46
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Re: Vodafone issues ultimatum over Openreach


[re: deleted] [link to this post]
 
I do wonder what exorbitant price means.. especially when you look at Mobile Data charges ??

So perhaps there should be a spun off mobile infrastructure supplier (nationalised or otherwise) and then we just see competition on top of that ?

Interesting debate and I can see pro's and con's to each side.

Regards PGre
Standard User deleted
(deleted) Sun 26-Jul-15 11:04:19
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Re: Vodafone issues ultimatum over Openreach


[re: Pgre] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Pgre:
I do wonder what exorbitant price means.. especially when you look at Mobile Data charges ??

So perhaps there should be a spun off mobile infrastructure supplier (nationalised or otherwise) and then we just see competition on top of that ?

Interesting debate and I can see pro's and con's to each side.


The thing that's different about mobile though is that the different networks own different infrastructure (I know there's mast sharing and mergers etc. but they do) so if you get a rubbish signal on one you can go to another and chances are you'll get a signal there. That's competition as it is in the respective network's interest to improve signal so they can get more customers in that area.

Not the same on the landline side...

What we have now is an illusion of competition. I can go to any ISP but my broadband will always be as poor (or not) as anywhere else I go. Granted different ISPs might be able to get Openreach to do more (AAISP comes to mind) but the fundamental infrastructure is the same and even if Openreach is split off, that won't change.

And like I've said, we had a chance to change this but the Politicians took the easy way out and fixed the problem for five years. We'll have the same problems again in 10 years and I wonder who the money will go to then...

Edited by deleted (Sun 26-Jul-15 11:05:12)

Standard User deleted
(deleted) Sun 26-Jul-15 16:05:14
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Re: Vodafone promises to invest in spun-off Openreach


[re: 69bertie] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by 69bertie:
I think the writing is on the wall for Openreach. People might argue against it but it is quite understandable that people think that Openreach and BT act as one. After all, even if they don't, they both have the same parent company. You really trying to tell me that they don't ever talk to one another on the next up and coming advance.


The common charge levelled at BT Group is that as a vertically-combined business, it can afford to run its end-user-facing subsidiaries (BT Retail, BT Business, and Plusnet) at minimal profit, or even at no profit at all. In the knowledge that those losses are counterbalanced by the huge profits the BT Group makes out of Openreach, from all Comms Providers.

That (alleged) cross-subsidy of BT's business has for years been the issue-of-contention with Ofcom and other Communication Providers. The relative demise of DSL via Local Loop Unbundling (LLU) has only accelerated and aggravated that lack of competition.

In reply to a post by 69bertie:
As for the consequences of hiving off Openreach, not much different from National Grid. Has the electricity supply fallen over yet since that happened. Nope. You'd get the same result with Openreach being on its own. Shareholders can be a pain, they can be a blessing but given the recent report that too much money (percentage wise) is being paid out to shareholders generally by a lot of companies with investment suffering as a result, maybe a break up wouldn't be such a bad idea.


Yes, we should comparison Openreach with the stand-alone networks of National Grid and Network Rail. We don't expect rivals to build overlay network in those two examples, to create competition; the expense and disruption would be enormous. The telecom network really isn't very different. If anything, of those three networks, Rail, Electricity and Telecoms, Openreach is best-placed for public ownership.

In reply to a post by 69bertie:
And someone mentioned that the old PO setup used to take weeks to do anything. Even Openreach took over 6 months to get my phone line reconnected. Reason? Lack of infrastructure investment at the local level. And of course, millions of £££ have been paid out from Government sources via BDUK to pay for the upgrades in many places around the UK. Even though fibre hasn't quite got here (they put the cabinet in place last week) I do know that if the government (and the EU) hadn't coughed up the money, we'd still be waiting for some sort of modernisation of anything if Openreach/BT had their way. Sometimes to have to lose money to make it.

The current setup has had its day.


The status quo certainly is a broken business model. We have a heavily state-subsidised telecommunications network that is not giving value for money, and no delivering for millions of households. It has long been the case that Openreach has (allegedly) been overcharging the taxpayer for its BDUK contract work, mindful that there's always more cash in the public kitty. Why hurry, when it's almost unaccountable public cash? The taxpayer-subsidised plant (DSLAMs, cabinets, new fibre) after just a few years becomes entirely BT's property. That is ridiculous and should not continue.
Standard User deleted
(deleted) Sun 26-Jul-15 16:07:27
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Re: Vodafone promises to invest in spun-off Openreach


[re: deleted] [link to this post]
 
edwincluck: are you for real?
Standard User deleted
(deleted) Sun 26-Jul-15 16:22:51
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Re: Vodafone issues ultimatum over Openreach


[re: Pgre] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Pgre:
I do wonder what exorbitant price means.. especially when you look at Mobile Data charges ??


The Br0k3nt3l3ph0n3 (broken telephone) blog cites some interesting figures; published in a 2013 "confidential" and then promptly leaked(!) report commissioned by TalkTalk.

See: BT's broadband rip-off -- the evidence: --

The 59 page report found that Openreach�s costs to build its FTTC network are £4.39 per line per month. BT Openreach charges resellers £7.40 or £9.95 depending on the bandwidth provided. Current prices for BT�s Infinity FTTC services start at £13/month and go up to £26/month. BT Retail offers discounted prices of £6.50 and £20 per month respectively for the first three months.


It is those margins that Ofcom is studying for evidence of a 'squeeze', and therefore monopolistic abuse.
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