Yes of course they do, but if the wholesale price is low then it means there is more scope for competition depending on how on much margin an individual business is prpared to accept.

So by that logic, why don't TalkTalk and Sky have their own networks in London?

I'll tell you why, it's because it is easier for them to use Openreach's network.

@TheEulerID

Take the ownsership model of the Internet Exchange Points such as LNX, the members pay a membership fee and for the services they use, the company itself is non-profit and invests any money it does make back into lowering prices.

Why shouldn't openreach operate in this way, for the benefit of BT and all other telcos in the UK?

I bet BT Openreach will bite back with roll out FTTP / FTTH in the next 10 years! FTTC could be replaced to FTTP/H by 2025. I think G.fast will be pointless in most case. I do welcome the news of more companies will offer Fibre to put more pressure on BT.

Whatever the criticisms of the current arrangements with Openreach isn't it about time the bulk of GEA FTTC CP providers sorted out their own ordering systems to enable them to process orders from those lucky (?) enough to have native GEA FTTP available.

Currently, as far as I'm aware, the only provider you place a standard order with is BT Retail for 'Infinity'. Plusnet will also provide if you ask the right questions but not via their standard order process.

As both FTTC and FTTP are GEA what is the difference for the likes of Sky and Talk Talk, etc - isn't even the wholesale prices the same for 40/10 & 80/20?

How can they criticise what Openreach provides when they won't resell the FTTP that is currently available?

If you dig the answer will be that people end up with an Openreach branded ONT, so dilutes the Sky/TalkTalk brand, notice how they only got big on FTTC once they could roll their own CPE with built in VDSL2 modem out.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

If you dig the answer will be that people end up with an Openreach branded ONT, so dilutes the Sky/TalkTalk brand, notice how they only got big on FTTC once they could roll their own CPE with built in VDSL2 modem out.

I don't disbelieve you but that seems a weak argument for leaving a sizable minority without choice of supplier especially as until recently all FTTC installs had the similar looking branded Openreach modem. Plus, unless the customer is blind they'll have probably noticed the Openreach van/uniform when the install was done. Or the rather unsubtle Oenreach logo on recently installed NTE5 sockets!

OK, so now they send their own VDSL2 cable box of tricks for wires only so customer doesn't see any Openreach bod (or worse still, Kelly's!) - can't see how FTTP is ever going to be self install, so is going to involve Openreach (or their successor) doing install work.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

If you dig the answer will be that people end up with an Openreach branded ONT, so dilutes the Sky/TalkTalk brand, notice how they only got big on FTTC once they could roll their own CPE with built in VDSL2 modem out.

But as far as I know, TalkTalk and Sky would still have a router plugged into that device so their brand would still be visible?

And why does it make any difference anyway? If you've bought a service from TalkTalk for instance, you're only advertising that to yourself if you have one of their routers.

Seems like a very odd argument I must say.

On top of which I wonder whether the failure of other CPs to use the existing FTTP is a factor in Openreach deciding whether to deploy FTTP (low ROI as a result). Wasn't the bulk of EO lines going to be FTTP eventually. Instead you have Openreach putting large amount of effort to rearrange existing copper for additional FTTC cabinets (often, ridiculously, directly outside the exchange). With any luck, within 15 years we will see FTTC cabinets and their older PCP twins being removed for scrap - so all this effort now will have a short life.

As for any new housing built since the early '90s with ducting all the way to the front door the money would be much better spent now on FTTP (if BT's critics could be bothered to use it!).

and you think thats good?