I'm not happy with ADSL - on a 20CN exchange and used to get the full 8Mbit all the time, now lucky to get 2Mbit in the evening and it's certainly been getting worse year on year for the last 3 years or so, fairly close to the exchange and full sync so a bandwidth issue with 20CN I think, I suspect it will be in BT's interest to 'turn a blind eye' to 20CN bandwidth provision issues so ADSL connections will likely get worse over time, unless of course most switch to Fibre and leave the old ADSL bandwidth for the few that remain on it

like you said it will take a few years, but I think ADSL will only really be widely used on the few remaining cabinets that aren't upgraded beyond 2017, BT will make it less and less attractive for the stubborn last few to hang on in areas that have FTTC/P..

Edited by deleted (Tue 08-Dec-15 20:05:03)

In reply to a post by Spetznaz:

I suspect it will be in BT's interest to 'turn a blind eye' to 20CN bandwidth provision issues so ADSL connections will likely get worse over time,

IIRC, the 20CN DSLAMs have got a fixed amount of upstream bandwidth to support the backhaul, and couldn't be upgraded - except, of course, moving subscribers onto a port in a different DSLAM. Now, with all the hardware being end-of-life, it certainly can't be upgraded with new hardware.

There isn't a lot they can do, except continue the path to migrate cabinets to FTTC, and to migrate exchanges to 21CN, both of which are happening.

In reply to a post by simon194:

But aluminium's affect on VDSL is far more significant than ADSL. My connection syncs at 47 Mbps on a 300m line due to a 120m section of aluminium and deteriorating Cu/Al joints on either end of it.

No. Aluminium's affect on high frequencies is far more significant than ADSL. I have the same issue as you, with a 40-45m sync on what should be an 80m line due to Alu. This is because the top half of the spectrum is just completely nuked by aluminium.

The bottom section, where the ADSL frequencies are, is mostly unaffected, or only slightly affected.

Unfortunately, those frequencies are hit by the ADSL power masking.

If there were no more ADSL, we'd regain some speed there at the low end.

Without ADSL, VDSL from the cabinet would, at all times, be at least as good as ADSL. Right now, in areas where you are a long way from the cab, VDSL can actually be worse than ADSL, as it doesn't have the low frequencies to use.

The debate will only get anywhere when TalkTalk and Sky agree to this, what BT Group wants is almost irrelevant, the lobbying power for ADSL2+ lies with the LLU operators.

You're completely correct of course, which only highlights how stupid the whole idea of LLU was, forcing competition for competitions sake, driving up costs and causing a race to the bottom on pricing (and therefore service).

I'm sure I've read previously that BT were prevented from rolling out more fibre decades ago as it would make competition harder.

Spetznaz

ADSL has already been removed on many exchanges with ADSL2+ ( WBC). You can see some dates that this was done on the checkers when it reports the removal of IPstream.

The ADSL equipment is past the end of it's life ( Brought around 2000-2006 ) and must be kept going by caniblisation of recovered equipment elsewhere.

Here they are talking about all varieties of ADSL so including ADSL2+ which is still being provided on some small exchanges by BT and is what all the big LLU operators use.

I would recpmmend moving to Fibre as soon as you can get it as the increased upload makes a significant difference to the user experience.

I'm sure I've read previously that BT were prevented from rolling out more fibre decades ago as it would make competition harder.

I remember the Tomorrow's World episode where they were talking about BT fibre and the ability it would have to bring a wealth of TV and fast connectivity into our homes. My understanding is that BT ended up giving up because the powers that be wouldn't allow them to become a TV broadcaster as well as offering their other services. Without the TV fibre was an expensive white elephant because their just weren't the requirements for high speed data back then - TV was the business case and without it there was little point.

Of course they did roll out fibre in Milton Keynes but that then bit them as they couldn't run ADSL over it...

That would make sense as I would expect over the years more and more people on my exchange have taken up ADSL and with a limited backhaul possibly based on a moderate take up when it was first installed in 2004 it has been pushed to its limit, especially at peak times.

Luckily we should be getting our FTTC cabinet going live next week according to one of the openreach guys who was working on 'finalising things' today, as ADSL appears to be slowly grinding to a halt here!

Okay thanks for clearing that up, I'm a little confused about my exchange though, there are 3 fibre cabinets that are getting FTTC through BDUK funding, 2 live some months ago and mine which is due in the next week or two, I was led to believe that all/some of the cabinets are possibly being fed from a bigger exchange, there is one obvious candiate about 5 miles away in a reasonably big town (i.e. its a 21CN exchange) but my exchange still shows as 20CN, but.. one of the live FTTC cabinets is for EO lines, so right outside the exchange, surely this means the exchange must be 21CN now?, or am I missing something, therefore in theory I should be able to upgrade to ADSL2+?, not that there is much point now.

Edited by deleted (Thu 10-Dec-15 23:41:23)

Not likely. The new cabinet will have its phone lines from the exchange and its fibre supply from the remote exchange, just like the others.

Quite what the routing of that fibre will be I have no idea.