In reply to a post by Alexir:

Baby F, Do you use the TalkTalk provided modem/router or have you bought your equipment and are you on a normal TT domestic product or business fibre? (Also your 75meg output is great! What's your max line rate stat taken from the router?)

I'm with TalkTalk Business (direct), but my neighbour is with TalkTalk residential after getting a poor connection with Zen and our VDSL connection stats are 99.99% the same (both on 80/20). Of course i get better support (uk based) and also up to 4 static ip addresses and higher priority at the exchange at busy times...allegedly. Other than for testing purposes, I never ever use ISP supplied routers as there are far better routers out there, though i've heard many good things about TT's latest HG633/5 router. I'm using an Openreach HG612 VDSL2 modem connected to a Linksys EA8500 Mu-Mimo 802.11ac 4 stream router and the wifi speeds are almost as good as wired speeds in our house.

Screenshot of my VDSL2 stats:
http://s33.postimg.org/ov52mwc7z/Capture_jpg.jpg

Edited by deleted (Fri 03-Jun-16 11:12:47)

In reply to a post by Ignitionnet:

The 10% is nothing to do with Ofcom but CAP/ASA,

I think this MOU sets out how it is plenty to do with ofcom AND asa http://stakeholders.ofcom.org.uk/binaries/consultati...

and relates to throughput not sync.

It clearly relates to Sync Speed and not throughput as you assert. It emphasises the effect of attenuation which impacts Sync Speed not throughput.

Edited by deleted (Fri 03-Jun-16 11:16:55)

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

In reply to a post by Ignitionnet:

The 10% is nothing to do with Ofcom but CAP/ASA,

I think this MOU sets out how it is plenty to do with ofcom AND asa http://stakeholders.ofcom.org.uk/binaries/consultati...

and relates to throughput not sync.

It clearly relates to Sync Speed and not throughput as you assert. It emphasises the effect of attenuation which impacts Sync Speed not throughput.

Find me where Ofcom mention broadband speeds or 10% in that MOU if you would, given it's specifically Ofcom imposed. My browser can't seem to find any match for 'broadband' 'speed' or '10%'.

I'm aware the ASA and CAP are connected to Ofcom but as far as I'm aware this restriction on broadband advertising is entirely within the ASA's remit and per my comment is not Ofcom imposed.

As far as the CAP note goes perhaps consider reading the document again. It specifically mentions speed claims should be measured in ways that represent user activity and says nothing about sync speed being an acceptable measurement.

Measurement

There is no established standard for testing broadband speeds. Marketers should therefore use
methods based on relevant industry standards.

Measurements used should be appropriate to the claims made, for instance:

� Specific claims, such as �50Mb Download speed�, should be based on tests of protocols
relevant to downloading large files.
� Speed claims for a service in general should be based on speed testing that is
representative of the activities that users generally perform.

Attenuation is emphasised because the majority of broadband subscribers are on services impacted by attenuation, however a bunch of other factors that have no impact on sync speed are also discussed, the relevant sections to fixed lines being as follows, I'm pretty sure the ones I've put in bold do not impact on sync speed:

Relevant factors
Marketers should account for all the relevant factors that cause a reduction or variations in speeds. The principal factors are:
� Signal attenuation
� Congestion/contention
� Traffic/network management
� Protocol overheads

All ISP's that resell BTW or use BT's back haul throughput is restricted by the use of BT's IP profile Both SKY and TT use their own backhaul so don't have BT's IP profile,
So theoretically the max throughput should be slightly higher ,

One exception is Plusnet who also use their own additional IP profile as well as BT's which combined with their prioritization of traffic (traffic shaping ) reduces throughput a little

Syncing at the max 80/20 rates:
Plusnet 73-74mbps
Zen 74.50 75.40mbps

Edited by tommy45 (Fri 03-Jun-16 12:52:26)

As you can see in that document should you care to read it

The legal foundation for the self-regulatory system envisioned by this MoU is the DCOA. Where a Minister or other public authority (such as Ofcom) has been given specific functions or duties by legislation, DCOA allows the Minister or public authority to delegate or �contract out� those functions to another person or organisation.

Maybe you should change your browser?

As ignition rightly says, advertised speeds represent throughput. The big ISPs easily meet 10% of users at 80 sync, and 76 is what they reckon (rightly or wrongly) to be the calculated corresponding throughput.

The 10% 'rule' was decided by CAP and BCAP. It wasn't Ofcom's choice, who were consulted and didn't think much of it, instead preferring a "typical speed range" to be advertised.

You obviously don't understand DCOA

In reply to a post by Ignitionnet:

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Ummm?

Your 96.8% sounds like the BT Wholesale IP Profile of 96.79% on non-G.INP, and your 76Mbps the Ofcom imposed figure for the sync 10% of customers can achieve. Neither of which refer to throughput.

The 10% is nothing to do with Ofcom but CAP/ASA, and relates to throughput not sync.

https://www.cap.org.uk/~/media/Files/CAP/Help%20note...

You are right it is an ASA requirement, not Ofcom. What amuses me is that I have often corrected people on this in just the way you have corrected me . Just brain fade.

As for the 10% being throughput not sync, frankly I don't believe that. BT may approach it by the simple means of not allowing anyone onto the product with estimates below 15Mbps, particularly if the 14.9Mbps is the lower end of the B range. It certainly isn't the top figure of the A range.

I'd be surprised if many other ISPs restrict sales that way, though unless they've changed Plusnet don't let people with 40'ish estimates have 80/20, and of course Sky and TT plug the 40Mbps services more strongly than the 80Mbps ones.

Are there any 80/20 suppliers that advertise it below 76/19? To get 10% of customers on 80/20 via BT Wholesale getting 76Mbps throughput when the highest IP Profile is 77.432Mbps would be remarkable.

Sky and TT don't have that IP Profile but AIUI they do restrict data feed speed in some way as per SIN 498 requirements.

The 2011/12 article you linked to is a real gobblegook piece of work, considering "This Help Note is intended to help the industry interpret the Misleading Advertising sections of the UK Code of Non-broadcast Advertising, Sales Promotion and Direct Marketing (the CAP Code) and the UK Code of Broadcast Advertising (the BCAP Code)". I'm sure a year or so ago I read what the ASA said, specifically looking for this point, and concluded it could only mean sync speed.

As I just replied to IgnitionNet, yes I know it is ASA. I have frequently said so myself . But if it applies to throughput, not sync, then an awful lot of ISPs must be lying and not been told off.

The guidance is clear that advertised speeds should refer to throughput not sync. The ASA maintains standards reactively by complaint on a case-by-case basis, TV and radio ads are vetted to some degree by clearance companies.

The main ISPs all genuinely have 10% of users on 80 sync (for the appropriate product). I think it was BT who came up with a corresponding throughput calculation for advertising of 76 (or >76) Mb/s and everyone else copied. They reckon this calculation is sufficient for substantiation, but this can only be known if it is tested by a complaint.

The BTw IP profile is not restrictive, it reflects the max throughput on the Openreach product (PTM, VLAN, ethernet overhead).

In reality throughput is 75 for Windows users, a bit less for Mac, and I believe this matches the true calculated max.