Your detailed rebuttal, most of which you had already said , and an overlapping "most" you are very well aware I certainly know , ends by confirming what I say. "In reality ...." There is no way that 10% get 76Mbps throughput. Particularly if using wireless connection to the router.

How about you post a link or three to user speed test results showing 76Mbps on FTTC.

As I said, the CAP document is a loudly written document considering it is supposed to be specifically intended to clarify things. It's a complete mess. As such I place no faith in what it says. IIRC it doesn't even mention the effect of using wireless and that throughput needs to be measured wired.

As for BT having done these "sophisticated calculations", (my eye!), the adverts are supposed to relate to each individual ISP's performance. It is not permissible for them to do as you say, and just use the BT figure. Is the BT Consumer anyway? Or is it a BT Openreach theoretical one?

Lies, damn lies and statistics.

If and when I am in the mood I shall go to the ASA documents.

I may be wrong. Nothing you have said proves I am. But I am not an idiot and find your tone extremely offensive.

We see people nailing the 76 Mbps so have never seen the point of making a big noise over the percentage
http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/results.html...

Whether its 10% is hard to say for sure, but if one was to sift through the results and reject those which are Wi-Fi/phone/tablet based and take just PC that appear Ethernet connected and on the up to 76 Mbps service then believe even our observations are going to put close to 10% in the 75 to 77 Mbps region. To do this exercise properly needs a good many hours sifting the many results manually and thus needs a good reason (or someone mad enough to pay for time) to do it.

We are seeing speed tests hitting the figure (or to within 1 Mbps) and this is not FTTP ones either.

With the current debate about changing the rules, the up to 76 Mbps is an irrelevancy and fingers crossed they might be sensible enough to talk to a cross section of industry people to try and understand some of the science involved.

There is the problem - the providers will insist it does not include wireless connections...and I believe you can probably show 10% within 1 Mbps of 76 Mbps. If ASA accepted SamKnows testing in the way Ofcom do then I have absolutely no doubt it is possible.

Perhaps focus here is better spent on not the current rules, but debating what they should change to, or whether they should stay as they are.

It is 76. Within 1Mbps of that is a fail. 10% need to reach or exceed 76. 75.5 does not. And it is not valid for every ISP to quote BT's figure as vimto-girl suggests. It has to be their own customer base. Not BT Consumer or Openreach theoretical calculations.

But I accept your point this discussion has become pointless as things are likely to change. The problem is that the regulators once again don't seem to fully understand the technologies they are regulating. This has seemed obvious to me for years, and you imply the same wrt this aspect in one of your other posts just now.

As I know that NO speed test can be absolutely accurate when I say within 1 Mbps I am telling you that one has to have some degree of tolerance.

Nothing wrong with every ISP using BT up to 76 Mbps figure if they can show this is the case when asked to prove it by ASA. A real risk if everyone wants to be behave in a black and white fashion is that any order for a 80/20 GEA-FTTC product would be rejected by providers unless they are pretty sure sync will be full tilt.

Remember some advertisers have presented what looks like reasonable data on various aspects of a service, but these get rejected, i.e. ASA rulings are very hard to predict even if someone has a good set of data. If presented poorly then good data is very likely to be rejected, but if done slickly you stand a better chance.

I'll go as further and say Ofcom may have some who understand the technology inside and out but this understanding is often diluted or ignored too.

Huh? I said I do not agree with the advertised figure! And that I do not believe 76 download can be achieved even in calculation! And I was far from endorsing the way I think ISPs copied BT consumer's figure and took safety in numbers as is possible!

I'm not really sure what your point is. I was just telling the facts, not really rebutting anything. It's not even up for discussion about throughput vs sync, it's in black and white what should be advertised.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

fingers crossed they might be sensible enough to talk to a cross section of industry people to try and understand some of the science involved.

They did a thorough consultation process actually last time, I guess any new approach should follow suit. A taster of what it involved:
- Consultation Proposals
- Consultation Responses
- Regulatory Statement

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

Perhaps focus here is better spent on not the current rules, but debating what they should change to, or whether they should stay as they are.

Yet if people don't understand (or refuse to accept) the basics of the current rules, how can they debate whether or how they should change...? Same goes for how the ISPs interpret and attempt to comply.

In reply to a post by vimto_girl:

Yet if people don't understand (or refuse to accept) the basics of the current rules, how can they debate whether or how they should change...? Same goes for how the ISPs interpret and attempt to comply.

The people making the rules don't understand them, so what chance does anyone else have?!

With my Fibre with Plusnet since 2014 my line throughput always around 74-75 Meg. Never get above that. The Plusnet current line speed was set at 77.3Mb while BTw IP Profile set at 77.35Mb

http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/results.html...

Edited by adslmax (Sun 05-Jun-16 00:18:14)