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Standard User deleted
(deleted) Sun 26-Mar-17 17:47:08
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Re: Recovery profile


[re: j0hn83] [link to this post]
 
I didn't do anything stupid! I was doing something totally unrelated which caused that to happen! You're very wrong... Also, where did I say all banding was permanent? Please stop accusing me of things without evidence!

Edited by deleted (Sun 26-Mar-17 17:47:46)

Standard User j0hn83
(member) Sun 26-Mar-17 18:25:21
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Re: Recovery profile


[re: deleted] [link to this post]
 
You deliberately removed/reconnected the DSL cable on your modem dozens of times "to see what DLM would do". Well it banded your line. You may not think that's stupid, I'm sure most would disagree.

Evidence? http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,16863

Enough said.
Standard User deleted
(deleted) Sun 26-Mar-17 18:28:47
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Re: Recovery profile


[re: j0hn83] [link to this post]
 
Exactly, I did that for testing purposes for my own knowledge! You don't get anywhere without testing! So, I didn't think it was stupid and tbh it was a good thing, because it allowed an Openreach engineer to see what was going on with this banding problem lots of people are facing and he checked the quality of my line pair!

Edited by deleted (Sun 26-Mar-17 18:29:55)


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Standard User 69bertie
(member) Sun 26-Mar-17 19:10:38
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Re: Recovery profile


[re: j0hn83] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by j0hn83:
It's only a small number of lines where banding sticks permanently. The OP's banding has been slowly decreasing for months.

I don't know where you got the idea that all banding is permanent. Your banding was so bad because you did something stupid that made DLM think your line was very broken.

You'd think DLM was the holy grail of good software writing. If DLM cannot tell the difference between unplugging a line and a failing connection (varies) then it really should be slung in to the bin. In my case I lost 10mb/s last year (had to unplug the modem). Yes, it has 'slowly' been recovering such that it was back to 64.4 after nearly 6 months!. A far cry from the 78mb I had.

This weekend I thought I'd do something equally stupid, I changed the modem to get some stats. Weee. lost another 10 mb/s, such I'm now plumbing the depths of 50mb/s . And this is only ONE disconnection again. And my limited stats show I have a line length of 250m with a SNR of 5db on upstream and 5db downstream. BT own check shows 53.13 Mbps Max Achievable Speed.

I'm not expecting any real improvement via DLM, such I have raised a ticket with Plusnet because OR system clearly sucks.

Standard User deleted
(deleted) Sun 26-Mar-17 19:33:53
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Re: Recovery profile


[re: 69bertie] [link to this post]
 
I agree! As much as I think DLM is beneficial, it's also a real nuisance. The EU should be able to ask their ISP to change DLM settings. But, I would recommend that ISP's don't advertise this as lots of people will start fiddling with DLM and then well it gets tricky...

Edited by deleted (Sun 26-Mar-17 19:35:33)

Standard User deleted
(deleted) Mon 27-Mar-17 15:03:33
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Re: Recovery profile


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by j0hn83:
That's just your assumption. It's much more likely the current DLM system was tweaked to accommodate the lower downstream SNRM target. It's a huge leap to assume the entire algorithm has been changed, the way banding is handled, and some new 2 day stepped approach added.


I agree with you here, to a reasonable degree. But I also agree with Mr Saffron:

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:
Reading into specification documents information that is not there is a dangerous game to play and leads to urban myths perpetuating for many years potentially


My observations over the last few years suggest that BT have made rather large changes to the DLM algorithm - particularly over the last 3 years - and not just small tweaks. Those changes have then been introduced alongside each of the attempts at G.INP, but I strongly suspect that major changes have been brought in as a result of the Assia patent row.

We have certainly seen changes in the way that DLM resets occur and, alongside, the nature of banding. Banding is more likely to be introduced on a line than 5 years ago, and less likely to be removed. It is also more likely to survive a DLM reset.

But whenever DLM was going to reduce or remove banding (if ever), then it would work in a stepwise manner. In early days, it would tend to follow a small subset of speed steps, but has more recently changed to steps of 2.5Mbps (or alternate between 2.4 and 2.6Mbps). It still appears to be stepped.

With a new attempt to rollout G.INP again, and a parallel rollout of the 5-4-3dB trial, I'm expecting the pattern of the last 3 years to be repeated: that the nature of DLM changes markedly again.

In reply to a post by j0hn83:
Unless you know for a fact something else has changed with DLM then suggesting such changes have occurred is likely to cause confusion for others.


Absolutely.

DLM is, at best, an unknown quantity. And we can expect it to be in the midst of a change in nature again.

Making a definitive, unqualified statement about DLM is probably unwise.
Standard User deleted
(deleted) Mon 27-Mar-17 15:12:21
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Re: Recovery profile


[re: 69bertie] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by 69bertie:
This weekend I thought I'd do something equally stupid, I changed the modem to get some stats.


My observations of recent DLM behaviour suggests that, nowadays, it is trying to keep track of whether the modem on a line is capable of supporting G.INP well, and to adjust the line settings quickly in response.

I imagine the aim is to ensure that swapping to a bad modem never renders the line totally u/s. A problem that has been seen in the G.INP rollouts.

Swapping modem is therefore an event that DLM might jump on extremely quickly, rather than just waiting to count the error rates.

Its a theory I haven't discounted yet, anyway.
Standard User deleted
(deleted) Mon 27-Mar-17 16:18:17
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Re: Recovery profile


[re: deleted] [link to this post]
 
Oddly enough I had a DSLAM initiated retrain again this morning and the stats say I gained 1 kbit/s more upstream! I assume further G.INP changes but can't see that on a BT HH5

New sync is 79999/20000

I assume all this activity (my 'unbanding') is a consequence of the switch on of vectoring at the Cab? Perhaps I'm on a new training period.

Edited by deleted (Mon 27-Mar-17 16:38:12)

Standard User deleted
(deleted) Tue 28-Mar-17 12:14:51
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Re: Recovery profile


[re: deleted] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by darrellr:
I assume all this activity (my 'unbanding') is a consequence of the switch on of vectoring at the Cab? Perhaps I'm on a new training period.


.and another re-train - this time at 10:47 am which is very unusual. I think I am being 'retrained'

10:46:22, 28 Mar. DSL Link Up: Down Rate=79999Kbps, Up Rate=20000Kbps; SNR Margin Down=14.9dB, Up=15.8dB
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