In reply to a post by RobertoS:

How do you conclude that ISPs designed the Openreach pricing system?.

I don't - if you ask Cerberus for a quote under the new system they pass the request onto Openreach who work out the initial quote(could take a couple of weeks for a quote reply). Openreach changed the system for quotes so can't really complain about the consequences.

In reply to a post by Spud2003:

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

How do you conclude that ISPs designed the Openreach pricing system?.

I don't

Given that you quoted about it slowing things down for ISPs, then say it's a rod they've made for their own backs, to me that means a rod the ISPs have made ....

Perhaps you should have clarified at the time. Particularly as Openreach has only one back, not several backs. At a stretch one could say that Openreach have made for their own back, but certainly not that OR have made for their own backs.

I don't see how it is a rod for Openreach's back anyway.

As I late explained anyway, there has always been a need for a paid survey, and no sensible CP would quote a fixed price until that had been accepted.

- if you ask Cerberus for a quote under the new system they pass the request onto Openreach who work out the initial quote(could take a couple of weeks for a quote reply).

Isn't that what they did anyway? Not knowing where or even which the aggregation point was?

Openreach changed the system for quotes so can't really complain about the consequences.

Where are Openreach complaining about the consequences of their price structure change?

Openreach designed the new system, and I talked about customers "bothering" Openreach for estimates- not ISPs ... it's fairly clear who I was referring to. Neither did I use the term "backs" - but back -

This a rod they've made for their own back ...

And furthermore -

Isn't that what they did anyway? Not knowing where or even which the aggregation point was? ...

No, the old system gave you a ball park quote in minutes - not (potentially) weeks. That's the difference.

I'm not totally against pedantry, but three of your four points are wrong ... and you just seem to be looking for an argument.

In reply to a post by Spud2003:

Openreach designed the new system

There is no �new system � wrt FTTPoD quotations. Under the old pricing it was Openreach who supplied the quotation to the isp who then forwarded this onto the customer. The same procedure still applies under the new pricing structure. Yes, now that the min term has been reduced to 12 months Openreach will probably now get more requests initially but once people realise installation costs have been jacked up then that should keep the Walter Mitty types away.

Btw my quote from Fluidone took ~ 2 weeks last year. As BT Wholesale haven�t even released their new pricing yet then it makes sense for ISPs to delay sending out quotations until BTW�s pricing is out in the wild (23 Feb. )

In reply to a post by baby_frogmella:

There is no �new system � wrt FTTPoD quotations ..

I'm not referring to a detailed quote but the ball park banding quote, they used to give you instantly - now if you contact them they don't give you an instant banding quote but contact Openreach and make you wait for up to two weeks ... that is new.

In reply to a post by Spud2003:

In reply to a post by baby_frogmella:

There is no �new system � wrt FTTPoD quotations ..

I'm not referring to a detailed quote but the ball park banding quote, they used to give you instantly - now if you contact them they don't give you an instant banding quote but contact Openreach and make you wait for up to two weeks ... that is new.

Detailed quote ( new pricing) or banding based quote (old pricing), it still has to come from Openreach and is never instant. There is/was no such thing as a ball park quote, because the price OR quoted for bands was almost always the correct price so had to be realistic. Hence why it took ~2 weeks for me to get a quotation 12 months ago.

Edited by deleted (Sun 18-Feb-18 09:48:50)

Ah, you mean Cerberus looked at the publicly available banding prices just like many of us here did. Big deal . More likely of course, the BT Wholesale ones based on those plus backhaul data prices plus BTW profit margin. Then added their own margin to the installation and ongoing prices.

The only thing I have wrong was in mis-reading �back/backs�.

What did you mean by �customers�? End users aren�t Openreach�s customers and can�t bother them for estimates.

I haven�t been looking for an argument. I have simply been countering the twaddle you posted and seem to wish to continue ranting about.

Openreach changed the system for quotes so can't really complain about the consequences.

They aren�t doing. You are.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Openreach changed the system for quotes so can't really complain about the consequences.

They aren�t doing. You are.

+1

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Ah, you mean Cerberus looked at the publicly available banding prices just like many of us here did. Big deal .

Perhaps you have records of where all the aggregation nodes are? You don't? Then you'd have to contact FluidOne or Cerberus to find out which band you were in ... because there's quite a price difference between bands A to K ... go and troll elsewhere.

Edited by Spud2003 (Sun 18-Feb-18 10:00:14)

In reply to a post by Spud2003:

I'm not referring to a detailed quote but the ball park banding quote, they used to give you instantly - now if you contact them they don't give you an instant banding quote but contact Openreach and make you wait for up to two weeks ... that is new.

Fyi, the new system is no different. It's the same initial quotation system that was used before and is used now. The difference now is how the pricing is structured.

Openreach know this well because they do it day in, day out for ethernet circuits.