In reply to a post by Spud2003:

This a rod they've made for their own back, previous banded initial quotes were instant

And quotes are not instant now?

In reply to a post by Spud2003:

the new system apparently requires human input/calculations.

And the previous FoD system didn't?

https://www.thinkbroadband.com/news/7858-new-openrea...

The original item.

Cost of integrating Google search was too high for our search volume, just add site:www.thinkbroadband.com on your search engine

As for On Demand Charge being higher, have stood face to face (or may have been sat) with Openreach management and yes this is the plan, i.e. some changes in allowances for helping others, since a neighbour on same manifold will once you are installed get access to native FTTP charges. How many manifolds are counted is where the debate stands.

On the volume of requests I think so many are seeing the monthly cost and then not realising the magnitude of the on demand build charge - the article gives a couple of examples though.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

https://www.thinkbroadband.com/news/7858-new-openrea...

The original item.

Thanks.

Cost of integrating Google search was too high for our search volume, just add site:www.thinkbroadband.com on your search engine

That works brilliantly. I've just tried a few different searches .

In reply to a post by Spud2003:

Perhaps you have records of where all the aggregation nodes are? You don't? Then you'd have to contact FluidOne or Cerberus to find out which band you were in ... because there's quite a price difference between bands A to K ... go and troll elsewhere.

You think CPs have aggregation point location data? Including which would be used for any particular address? That doesn't sound like the sort of information Openreach likes to disclose.

I suggest they simply made an educated guess on the distance based on the BT Wholesale FTTC estimates for the property and assumed some rule of thumb additional distance. Bearing in mind FTTP/FTTPoD does not route through the cabinet. (Perhaps it occasionally may go through the cabinet's chamber purely for access to existing ducts).

Also I believe the aggregation point used is not necessarily the one that services the user's FTTC cabinet.

Once BT Wholesale prices are available to CPs I expect they will still be able to give ballpark figures in a similar way.

(not specifically aimed at RobertS - just a general question).

So with these new price arrangements coming in to force, when do you think the 2 ISP's mentioned will start offering residential customers the opportunity to buy FOD?

From my opinion and reading the announcements OR clearly are wanting to encourage much more take-up of FOD and this is primary aimed at residential customers with the lowering of all the prices. It seems OR are prepared to take the hit on their costs to get more customers ordering the service.

In reply to a post by bowdon:

So with these new price arrangements coming in to force, when do you think the 2 ISP's mentioned will start offering residential customers the opportunity to buy FOD?

Fluidone only sell their services to business customers, irrespective of min term on any package. However with Cerberus you may be able to take out services as a residential customer on service contracts of 24 months or less but you would need to speak to them for clarification.

Also you�re mistaken if you think the new pricing structure = cheaper ownership of FTTPoD. The overall costs are expected to remain the same (for lone installs at least) which means higher install costs in order to compensate for the lower monthly costs and shorter min term.

Edited by deleted (Sun 18-Feb-18 13:24:50)

Honestly I think given what seems to have been happening they will continue to focus on business, i.e. where people understand the timescales of quoting for services and are simply not just curious

The only other way would be to take a small non-refundable deposit upfront, that is deducted once you order a service.

Yep, afaik Fluidone have always been a business only ISP and I�m not expecting that to change with the new FTTPoD pricing. Though if someone is REALLY determined, they could setup a new biz with Companies House and then place the order with Fluidone. Not sure if they would pass their credit check though lol (FO run credit check on CH registration #)

Edited by deleted (Sun 18-Feb-18 14:00:49)

FYI, I spoke to FluidOne a few weeks ago and learned some things which may be relevant here.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

I suggest they simply made an educated guess on the distance based on the BT Wholesale FTTC estimates for the property and assumed some rule of thumb additional distance.

No. The property banding came from him entering my phone number/postcode into an OpenReach or BTW system; it's not estimated by the service provider, and it's not related to FTTC.

He said that under the old (banded) model, the instant price quote was generally the price the customer ended up paying. He knew of only one case where Excess Construction Charges (ECC) had been levied, and that was on a Band G property - 1500m to 2000m radially from the nearest aggregation node.

Under the new model, there's no instant quote at all. You can get a free non-binding estimate, which is a "desk survey" made by someone looking at OR looking at a GIS map, and this is supposed to take 2 weeks. Only when you place an order will you get the actual cost - and if you decide to back out at that stage, you'll have to pay a £245+VAT survey charge.

He said he knew of several people in the longer distance brackets were getting their orders in before the 23rd Feb switchover to new pricing, as he was expecting the installation costs for long distances to increase substantially. The costs for short distances (old bands A-D) he expected to remain more or less unchanged in total.

In reply to a post by baby_frogmella:

Fluidone only sell their services to business customers, irrespective of min term on any package. However with Cerberus you may be able to take out services as a residential customer on service contracts of 24 months or less but you would need to speak to them for clarification.

FluidOne intend to keep the 36 month contract period for FTTPoD, even though the OR contract drops to 12 months. Cerberus' webpage says they are dropping to 12 months.

I also came across a third provider of FTTPoD: Amvia. Their pricing sounds like it's in the same ballpark or a bit lower than FluidOne, but I don't have like-for-like quotations to compare. It's possible they are just reselling F1.

Speaking personally: I'm 500m radially from my VDSL cabinet, about 800m copper length, which means I get about 35M down / 5M up on VDSL; I guessed I would be in band C or D. However, I am actually in band G. That makes it clear that the aggregation node is not the cabinet.

Given that the total cost over 3 years on the old model was so high, I decided to take a gamble and wait and see what the new pricing turns out to be. I live in a cul-de-sac and I have some evidence that there is fibre running along the road that runs past the end. That road continues into the countryside, but less than a mile further along, fibre pops up out of the ground and then runs along telephone poles. (It's definitely fibre. It says "Corning Optical Cable" on it, and the junction boxes have laser warning symbols on them )

I don't know whether OR would be able to make use of the existing cable which goes near my house, or would have to pull an entirely fresh one for FTTPoD. But I thought it was worth finding out.

Regarding the estimate and final quote, surely there should be some expectation that the two are close?

If the final quote turns out to be significantly higher than the estimate, then the poor punter will be paying £250 if he cancels which would be rather unfair...

Edited by deleted (Mon 19-Feb-18 09:32:44)