You may well be right Andrew.

There are a lot of WISPs in the market, and being cut out of a grant funding pot would not have gone down well.

The fact that the network needs to be Gigabit capable, but does not need to deliver more than 100 MBit immediately means that having a fibre backhaul and local WiFi distribution would have to be entertained as a viable option.

I spoke again to Amvia, and it transpires they are a reseller of Cerberus. They quoted £152+VAT per month for the service fee on a 12 month contract (as compared to Cerberus' £100+VAT).

Their salesperson said that there would be a £700 discount for each linked order, but was unable to say what the setup fee would be for the other orders.

In reply to a post by candlerb:

Their salesperson said that there would be a £700 discount for each linked order, but was unable to say what the setup fee would be for the other orders.

Companies selling these services need to get their skates on and be in a position to provide an accurate setup cost for potential linked orders.

Still waiting for my desk survey quote, and leaning towards paying for the proper survey afterwards, but if there are still a bunch of unknowns around linked order discounts etc that's going to be a pain.

£35,900 for me, in Band F. This from Cerberus. 3 premises passed.

I got a quote from FluidOne a few weeks ago - that was ~£5,500, but didn't get any ECCs surveyed.

I'll get the £250 'real survey' quote, which I do hope can come down as well as go up... I'm on a (short) private road (which I own) with poles all the way from the cabinet (I know it's the node which matters) so I am hoping a 'real' survey might be lower. Though I'd've thought OR's records would show the poles, so who knows.

I am assuming that the old structure upfront quote + ECCs + 3 years' sub will more or less equal the new structure 'real' quote + 1 year's sub. We'll see, and I'll now never know since I didn't get a quote for the ECCs under the old structure. I would have done if FluidOne had been willing to accept my business...

In reply to a post by markob101:

£35,900 for me, in Band F. This from Cerberus. 3 premises passed.

I got a quote from FluidOne a few weeks ago - that was ~£5,500, but didn't get any ECCs surveyed.

I'll get the £250 'real survey' quote, which I do hope can come down as well as go up... I'm on a (short) private road (which I own) with poles all the way from the cabinet (I know it's the node which matters) so I am hoping a 'real' survey might be lower. Though I'd've thought OR's records would show the poles, so who knows.

I am assuming that the old structure upfront quote + ECCs + 3 years' sub will more or less equal the new structure 'real' quote + 1 year's sub. We'll see, and I'll now never know since I didn't get a quote for the ECCs under the old structure. I would have done if FluidOne had been willing to accept my business...

Btw unlike the new system, under the old pricing structure the initial quotes were quite accurate, ie for the vast majority of orders the price remained unchanged after the survey (no ECCs applied).

Out of curiosity why were FluidOne happy to quote you £5.5k under the old pricing but unable to accept your business? (assuming you were willing to order before 23rd Feb)

Edited by deleted (Tue 13-Mar-18 10:26:56)

In reply to a post by baby_frogmella:

Out of curiosity why were FluidOne happy to quote you £5.5k under the old pricing but unable to accept your business? (assuming you were willing to order before 23rd Feb)

They wanted the order to come not only through a company but from a live business.

I don�t run my own business, but I was willing to set up a shelfco to face FluidOne and either pay them direct or pay them through the company. They insisted on a couple of months� �trading history� - I said it would never have any �trading history� as I was just setting it up for this purpose and had no other business to put through it. I offered to support the company with a PG (which would have been much more valuable than two months� trading of a new company) but they were adamant it needed to be a �real� business. Alternatively, I wouldn�t have minded paying some amount upfront into an escrow account.

I wish I�d pushed it a bit harder - if I�d managed to speak to someone sensible on the credit risk side I feel sure we�d have been able to come to terms - but I didn�t think the price differential would be so significant as it now appears it might be.

In reply to a post by markob101:

In reply to a post by baby_frogmella:

Out of curiosity why were FluidOne happy to quote you £5.5k under the old pricing but unable to accept your business? (assuming you were willing to order before 23rd Feb)

They wanted the order to come not only through a company but from a live business.

I don�t run my own business, but I was willing to set up a shelfco to face FluidOne and either pay them direct or pay them through the company. They insisted on a couple of months� �trading history� - I said it would never have any �trading history� as I was just setting it up for this purpose and had no other business to put through it. I offered to support the company with a PG (which would have been much more valuable than two months� trading of a new company) but they were adamant it needed to be a �real� business. Alternatively, I wouldn�t have minded paying some amount upfront into an escrow account.

I wish I�d pushed it a bit harder - if I�d managed to speak to someone sensible on the credit risk side I feel sure we�d have been able to come to terms - but I didn�t think the price differential would be so significant as it now appears it might be.

A real bummer you weren't able to order through FluidOne

Moving forward, as you say your best bet is to proceed with the survey through Cerberus and pray that the cost of 35k isn't a true reflection of the work req'd and is significantly reduced.

Edited by deleted (Tue 13-Mar-18 13:14:57)

In reply to a post by baby_frogmella:

In reply to a post by markob101:

In reply to a post by baby_frogmella:

Out of curiosity why were FluidOne happy to quote you £5.5k under the old pricing but unable to accept your business? (assuming you were willing to order before 23rd Feb)

They wanted the order to come not only through a company but from a live business.

I don�t run my own business, but I was willing to set up a shelfco to face FluidOne and either pay them direct or pay them through the company. They insisted on a couple of months� �trading history� - I said it would never have any �trading history� as I was just setting it up for this purpose and had no other business to put through it. I offered to support the company with a PG (which would have been much more valuable than two months� trading of a new company) but they were adamant it needed to be a �real� business. Alternatively, I wouldn�t have minded paying some amount upfront into an escrow account.

I wish I�d pushed it a bit harder - if I�d managed to speak to someone sensible on the credit risk side I feel sure we�d have been able to come to terms - but I didn�t think the price differential would be so significant as it now appears it might be.

A real bummer you weren't able to order through FluidOne

Moving forward, as you say your best bet is to proceed with the survey through Cerberus and pray that the cost of 35k isn't a true reflection of the work req'd and is significantly reduced.

I never dreamt of a £30k uplift. In fact, I started discussion with FluidOne in February, having assumed the new prices would be designed to encourage people to do OR's build-out for them. Getting a quote under the old structure was unexpected.

I thought the whole idea would be that people who cared about it more/had deeper pockets would pay effectively to gift the neighbourhood native FTTP, and OR would meet you halfway(ish) in acknowledgement of the fact that it's helping defray their build-out costs. Bearing in mind also that a lot of these requests are going to be in areas below the 2020 USO where there will have to be some infrastructure development at someone's cost anyway, and where the commercial incentives are blunted. I'm interested not because of a possible change from 80 down to 300 down, but because of the need for a change from ~4 down to [anything above 4!] down!

Disappointing that we are being priced away.

In reply to a post by markob101:

I thought the whole idea would be that people who cared about it more/had deeper pockets would pay effectively to gift the neighbourhood native FTTP,

Well technically that is the idea, it's just that sadly we're gonna need much deeper pockets than first hoped for it seems. That said, if paid surveys indicate it's possible to do builds at a lower cost than initial surveys it might not be so bad for some. Glass half full and all that...

My Cerberus order is in.

Their terms and conditions state:

3.3.2.7 After the survey has been completed, then Cerberus will deem the order to have reached KCI2. Cerberus will determine the Excess Construction Charges (�ECCs�) that will be due to complete the order, additional to the Estimated Build Cost. Cerberus will provide notice of these charges to the Customer in writing. If the Customer does not confirm acceptance of the ECCs in writing within 28 days, then Cerberus will cancel the order. The Survey Charge will not be refunded.

So the contract doesn't allow for the possibility of a reduction after survey.

I guess we'll see over the coming weeks - especially if someone bites the bullet on one of those £39K installs...