In reply to a post by bowdon:

I guess the questions are;

What is the difference between installing FTTP and FoD?

Why is FoD estimates so high while FTTP is so cheap?

I always thought OR would have to do similar work for both? I know FoD would be like a first order. But isn't the physical work similar?

1) Technically they're very similar, its just that one is built on demand whilst native FTTP is built at Openreach's discretion, usually commercially funded but also via some BDUK funding.

2) FTTP is NOT cheap. Its just that when deployed to serve 1000s of premises then its far cheaper per property (~£500 per home passed) to roll out. Hence why the likes of CityFibre/Vodafone will be rolling out FTTP en-masse.

3) With the new FoD pricing, any lone installs will also provide FTTP to neighbouring properties at native FTTP prices. Basically you're paying for your neighbours to have free FTTP. Whereas under the old pricing, none of the immediate properties can order native FTTP. You can check this yourself for postcode IV2 5FJ

Basically you're paying for your neighbours to have free FTTP

Just to be very pedantic they are paying for their neighbours to get FTTP at the standard rate rather than free (they still need to pay normal FTTP install and rental costs justnot the overhead of the FTTPoD terms and pricing).

It just isn�t as simplistic as you claim

I don't think that it is the claim that is being simplistic but rather the one making that statement who appears to believe that the end customer should pay nothing to receive a service that isn't currently available to them. Maybe in Putin's Russia but even there I suspect not.

In reply to a post by baby_frogmella:

You can check this yourself for postcode IV2 5FJ

So you don't mind making your address public?

In reply to a post by baby_frogmella:

2) FTTP is NOT cheap. Its just that when deployed to serve 1000s of premises then its far cheaper per property (~£500 per home passed) to roll out. Hence why the likes of CityFibre/Vodafone will be rolling out FTTP en-masse.

Also you have to bear in mind that these companies will be calculating some sort of take-up rate. Let's say1 in 6 people in an area take up the new service; this means that the cost for each home is £3000. But if 1 in 4 people take it up, the cost for each home falls to £2000. That's an investment that has to be funded from the rental they receive over the coming years.

The published Openreach wholesale FTTP pricing shows a wholesale rental of £456 for 330/30, or £220 for 80/20; presumably the figures for the altnets will be in a similar ballpark. So the payback is over quite a number of years, and of course there are operational costs as well.

Having said that: the £500 per property figure quoted floated includes actually having to dig up the streets. Openreach have the benefit of existing ducts and poles in many areas.

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

So what about those needed to plan the task, provide routing for the fibre, build its virtual paths, supply the tools, service the vehicle, handle the order from the CP, etc, etc, etc ..

It just isn�t as simplistic as you claim.

Factor their time into the year of (very good) salary I've been quoted. It's not a year's worth of work for a team, even added together.

As for tools and servicing, they'll have an asset at the end of it, and a profit from service(s) ordered.

It's like paying BMW full price (or more) to make you a car, and then paying more to rent it from them, whilst never actually owning the car.

A fair contribution I can understand, and wouldn't mind, but such ridiculous figured are clearly IMHO just an attempt to fob off consumers.

All

First the good news...

In case not spotted - DCMS announcement today...

https://gigabitvoucher.culture.gov.uk/

New voucher scheme coming on line, will provide up to £3k for business install and £500 for residential install.

I've also been informed that under new scheme it may well be possible to apply for vouchers for linked orders and to pool vouchers - so for example a business park with 10 units may be elegible for £30k of funding.

Full details on voucher T&Cs not available yet - expected in next week or so.

Now the bad news -

You may have spotted...
https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2018/03/fttp-d...

Basically, BT advising that they can only handle 20 FTTPoD installs per month across the whole of the UK. To date these have been single site installs in the main - so no idea how they would handle a couple of dozen linked orders for business parks!

One step forward / one step backward!

"Openreach and BT Wholesale have indicated to ISPreview.co.uk that they do not recognise the delay with desktop surveys being suggested by the ISP above. Apparently it�s always less than three days for an estimate and typically much better."

^ Three days?? I made my request for the desktop assessment to Cerebrus on the 26th February and still have not heard back yet??

Can I ask with regards to the business £3000 voucher. What do you need to be classed as a business? If you are registered as a self employed trader who pays taxes each year as a self employed trader. Would this be enough to get the voucher or would you need to be registered on company house as a company to get it?

VAT registered business most likely and for the service to be billed to the business too.

NOTE: Its only for registered suppliers, which will probably include the FoD suppliers but if clustering to get some additional residential vouchers that is worth bearing in mind.

On clustering a group of vouchers, likely to be dealt with via the Community Fibre scheme that is run by Openreach and is set up to deal with the group side of things.

Minimum purchase speed of 100 Mbps

Previous Wave 1 vouchers stipulated that they were for qualifying SMEs - less that 249 employees / less than 43m euro valuation on balance sheet and defined as...

To qualify for a voucher the beneficiary must meet the European Commission definition of
SME (http://ec.europa.eu/growth/smes/business-friendly-environment/sme-definition_en)

Read in there and you will eventually get to this link...

https://ec.europa.eu/docsroom/documents/15582/attach...

Page 9 has the following...

In practice, this means that the self-employed,
family firms, partnerships and associations or
any other entity that is regularly engaged in an
economic activity may be considered as enterprises.
An economic activity is usually seen as �the sale
of products or services at a given price, on a given/direct
market�

So - yes, on that basis a Self Employed Trader would qualify as an SME.

Mr Saffron mentioned VAT as a possible qualifier. That may be used as a yardstick, but the funding is regulated under EC law hence the definition above is possibly the more accurate yardstick, and you could be a small limited company trading for years whose turnover does not exceed VAT threshold.

My gut feel - if you are a legitimate self employed trader, can prove that you are in business, have filed self employed accounts or have registered with HMRC with that intent - then you have a case to be considered an SME and to qualify.