The bit I really don't understand is this

In reply to a post by pipcoo:

Number of premises passed for FTTP: 34

The build estimate includes a reduction for the number of premises passed as these would be able to obtain FTTP as a consequence of your build.

When the new pricing was announced there were seemingly two discounts applied to the build cost

- One to reflect that the initial FTTPoD order was effectively paying for the network upgrade and making it cheaper for Openreach to deploy FTTP to neighbours
- The second to make it cheaper is a group club together and submit linked orders

The quotes mention how many premises are passed but there's no transparency on the level of discount applied as a result. Surely 34 premises would lead to a reasonable sum?

The second discount (£700 per linked order) is nonsense if the resulting infrastructure enables ordering FTTP. Where's the incentive for a neighbour to join in and pay for FTTPoD and reduce your install bill by £700 when they can just wait and then order FTTP later if you go ahead?

I'm obviously missing something somewhere...

In reply to a post by ferretuk:

The quotes mention how many premises are passed but there's no transparency on the level of discount applied as a result. Surely 34 premises would lead to a reasonable sum?

The discount is £50 per property passed, so your quote should already include a deduction of £1700.

Indeed it's not transparent from Openreach, nor do you know what the service provider's markup is - whereas under the old banded system, it was clear.

BTW, I have no objection to the service provider adding a reasonable markup to cover costs. Under the old system I had a quote of £7,675 from Cerberus, and the published Openreach wholesale pricing was £750 installation plus £6,125 band G distance charge, so it seems £800 was added.

In reply to a post by ferretuk:

The second discount (£700 per linked order) is nonsense if the resulting infrastructure enables ordering FTTP. Where's the incentive for a neighbour to join in and pay for FTTPoD and reduce your install bill by £700 when they can just wait and then order FTTP later if you go ahead?

It's a bit of a poker game: the install might not happen at all if the neighbour doesn't join in, and you're not prepared to take on the whole cost yourself. The total cost has to be split between all the parties anyway, so a discount on the total install cost would benefit everyone.

I note that the pricelist says "FTTP on demand build charge exemption per PON", but the PON is the Passive Optical Network, not an active subscriber.

In reply to a post by candlerb:

It's a bit of a poker game: the install might not happen at all if the neighbour doesn't join in, and you're not prepared to take on the whole cost yourself. The total cost has to be split between all the parties anyway, so a discount on the total install cost would benefit everyone.

But really then, this should not be a £700 discount if the mystery homes that I have no way of finding or contacting sign up too.

Let's say I get a small quote of say, £5k. If one neighbour agrees to sign up, should we not be paying £2500 each?

The current scheme would see us both pay £4300 for a total of £8600 and therefore more than we would have if I'd just paid it and split the bill with him.

As has been pointed out to me off-list, we really don't know how linked orders are going to work, so this is all speculation at the moment.

Edited by candlerb (Thu 22-Mar-18 14:53:07)

This really is a joke this.

In January 17th of this year I was quoted by FluidOne a cost of

£1800 for FTTP On Demand Constuction Costs
And £800 for a SRX Juniper. So a total of £2600 to install the FTTP On Demand.

The price I have just been quoted by Cerebrus just now;

Estimated Build Cost: £20,600.00 ex VAT
The build charge includes the estimate for the work and materials required to deliver the service. It also includes the connection charge. Number of premises passed for FTTP: 19

So pretty much in the space of 2 months, it has jumped up 10x the cost.

And this is for a Band B Property.

Edited by Anth (Thu 22-Mar-18 16:12:37)

Well one of my next door neighbours put in a request for pricing from Cerberus and considering I already have FTTPoD installed he was quite optimistic that he wouldn't have to pay too much as the FTTP splitter used for my service is less than 20m from his house with nice clear ducts already in place.

Wait for it....quotation came out as £21600 lol. Poor guy was gobsmacked but may get Openreach to do a survey to get this confirmed as we both doubt that £21k's of work is req'd to connect him when the fttp splitter is very close to his doorstep.

That really sounds like something�s not right there doesn�t it .....

I kinda thought once you�d been oD�d then those �passed� became viable for �normal� FTTP ?

Has your neighbour tried an order through normal channels, does his address not come up as FTTP available on the checker now ?

I agree with you that the only thing that makes any sense at all is for the installation cost to be the same however many of the properties "passed" (which seems to mean those that can be directly connected to the same hardware, PON is it?) want to sign up. And then if some of them do join there is a further £700 pounds deducted for each joiner beyond the first one. How the obligation to pay one's share is acquired must depend on the ISP who holds the contract with the customer(s), but BT only expects the original install sum, less the discounts, and then to later receive monthly subs for each subscriber. The ISP could make one customer responsible for the whole sum, but it makes better sense to have a binding contract with each customer who wants to join, not least because of the need to collect a monthly fee for each joiner they have notified to BT.

As I say, this is the only thing that makes sense. But I suppose it is not the only scheme that BT could have set up.

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

I kinda thought once you�d been oD�d then those �passed� became viable for �normal� FTTP ?

AFAIK this only occurs for the installs under the new pricing, not for installs under the old pricing. However common sense would suggest that it shouldn't cost Openreach £21k when an existing FTTP splitter is very close by from my FoD install last year.

No-one on my street has 'native' FTTP available to them, according to the BT/OR dsl checker - only xDSL and FTTPoD.

Edited by deleted (Fri 23-Mar-18 04:14:55)

Ah, common sense, and Openreach, still sadly not three words that are spotted together too often.