I find it a bit ironic that we're debating on people not wanting to pay for faster speeds on a thread were people are prepared to pay for faster speeds!

Agreed. I think my point is that providing faster speed infrastructure to the home today, rather than in a few years, for those who already have FTTC is only going to be of interest to the few and therefore give a poor ROI to Openreach at a time when it is also being pressed to improve speeds for those on long lines or those customers stuck on ADSL not through choice but lack of any alternative.

When looking at the mix of technology in use by consumers, its worth remembering the ADSL figures are buoyed up by those stuck on it with no option of FTTC/FTTP.

That should only be relevant for 5% of premises, and a number of those have fixed wireless alternatives too.

its worth remembering the ADSL figures are buoyed up by those stuck on it with no option of FTTC/FTTP.

Whilst for some that may be the case in excess of 95% of the UK now have access to higher speed technologies (24Mbps or better) whilst others have access to FTTC but at lower speeds and for some of those at speeds lower than ADSL due to the length of their line.

I am aware of several friends and relatives who still use ADSL, frequently at speeds <<10Mbps although all could use FTTC at much higher speeds if they wished to do so, simply because they don't see the need for a faster connection for their use of the internet.

In reply to a post by 1nfern0:

It's been interesting to see this thread evolve. I got a quote last year which came in at around £3500 + £165 for 3 years from Cerberus which I thought was quite reasonable. As self employed contractor, I thought it was best to hold off until my contract was renewed which unfortunately fell after the change in Costing.

If was to get a requote, am I now looking at 30k+ for the install?

Maybe. Firstly you need to go to a service provider who does FTTPoD and ask them for a free quotation. This will be an OpenReach "desk survey" and is a non-binding price estimate. Some people have been quoted as much as £39K (*), although there is a small chance it could be as low as £4K. You can get some examples from earlier in this thread, or try this blog post.

If you're happy with the price quoted then you can place an order. At this point, a physical survey will be done and a final binding price will be generated. If you're not happy with the price at that point you can drop out by paying £250 to cover the cost of the survey. (There has been some wishful thinking that the price might fall between the desk survey and the physical survey, but I have yet to see any evidence of that)

The new price will almost certainly be higher than your quote under the old system, but there are a few things which may at least partly offset this:

* The monthly fees are less. Previously you would have paid £165 x 36 = £5,940 for the first three years service; now you can expect to pay £100 x 12 + £62.50 x 24 = £2,700. In other words, about £3,240 of extra install cost was being hidden in the first three year's rental.

* The contract is only 12 months, which may make you feel more comfortable about the level of commitment you are taking on. If you cease your FTTPoD service after 12 months, you can always restart it later as a regular FTTP (with a slightly larger choice of service providers, some of whom offer cash incentives for taking new FTTP service)

* If you are trading as a business, you may be eligible for £3K government voucher

Therefore if your new quote comes out at £9,740 or less, and you're eligible for the government voucher, then you'll be no worse off than you were before. And there's an additional side benefit that instead of just activating one property, the project may FTTP-enable some of your neighbours too; that is, there's a community benefit, which didn't happen under the old FTTPoD system.

If you have neighbours who are really keen for FTTP then in theory they can club together with you and apply for additional £500 vouchers towards the total bill. This sounds like it would be a nightmare to administer - and it's not clear to me whether they'd also be required to take service from the same service provider as you - but you can explore this option if the pricing is marginal.

(*) All prices plus VAT

BranH

I refer to my post up the chain a bit.

Look at the thinkbroadband speed tests for Deddington, where everybody has access to FTTP and some people have refused the move so they can remain on ADSL.
Deddington

In reply to a post by candlerb:

In reply to a post by 1nfern0:

It's been interesting to see this thread evolve. I got a quote last year which came in at around £3500 + £165 for 3 years from Cerberus which I thought was quite reasonable. As self employed contractor, I thought it was best to hold off until my contract was renewed which unfortunately fell after the change in Costing.

If was to get a requote, am I now looking at 30k+ for the install?

Maybe. Firstly you need to go to a service provider who does FTTPoD and ask them for a free quotation. This will be an OpenReach "desk survey" and is a non-binding price estimate. Some people have been quoted as much as £39K (*), although there is a small chance it could be as low as £4K. You can get some examples from earlier in this thread, or try this blog post.

If you're happy with the price quoted then you can place an order. At this point, a physical survey will be done and a final binding price will be generated. If you're not happy with the price at that point you can drop out by paying £250 to cover the cost of the survey. (There has been some wishful thinking that the price might fall between the desk survey and the physical survey, but I have yet to see any evidence of that)

The new price will almost certainly be higher than your quote under the old system, but there are a few things which may at least partly offset this:

* The monthly fees are less. Previously you would have paid £165 x 36 = £5,940 for the first three years service; now you can expect to pay £100 x 12 + £62.50 x 24 = £2,700. In other words, about £3,240 of extra install cost was being hidden in the first three year's rental.

* The contract is only 12 months, which may make you feel more comfortable about the level of commitment you are taking on. If you cease your FTTPoD service after 12 months, you can always restart it later as a regular FTTP (with a slightly larger choice of service providers, some of whom offer cash incentives for taking new FTTP service)

* If you are trading as a business, you may be eligible for £3K government voucher

Therefore if your new quote comes out at £9,740 or less, and you're eligible for the government voucher, then you'll be no worse off than you were before. And there's an additional side benefit that instead of just activating one property, the project may FTTP-enable some of your neighbours too; that is, there's a community benefit, which didn't happen under the old FTTPoD system.

If you have neighbours who are really keen for FTTP then in theory they can club together with you and apply for additional £500 vouchers towards the total bill. This sounds like it would be a nightmare to administer - and it's not clear to me whether they'd also be required to take service from the same service provider as you - but you can explore this option if the pricing is marginal.

(*) All prices plus VAT

Interesting blog. I guess my my concern is wasting the time an effort of the survey if it's going to top out at the 30k mark where most people on here have been quoted.
I'm under no illusion that the quote will come back more expensive but I can live with a middle ground, just not seen many physical survey results posted.
Guess I'll bite the bullet and see where I land. Between VAT reclaim, and potential vouchers, it may not be so bad. Only one way to find out

G

Oh yes, definitely do it. There's no cost and they usually turn them around in a week.

Things to consider with these stats as well is the nature of the technology involved.

e.g. 100mbps cable vs 200mbps cable is just a max burst speed increase, both offer guaranteed access speeds.

If FTTP is marketed correctly so consumers know that up to 330mbps on FTTP means something different to up to 40mbps on FTTC, then they are more likely to opt for FTTP if they have a line that has a low estimate on FTTC.

To me the advantage of FTTP over FTTC is not so much the higher max possible speeds, but more that the access speed is guaranteed and one no longer has to worry about the horrors of interleaving.

Similar I guess with comparing FTTC to ADSL, one might be happy with say 10mbit/sec but if the ADSL line can only manage 3mbps and the FTTC can manage 40mbps, then getting a FTTC service achieves that 10mbps aim.

What hasnt helped isp's trying to sell ultra fast services is companies like sony rolling out devices like the PS4 with only 2.4ghz wireless hardware.

Edited by Chrysalis (Fri 15-Jun-18 13:54:20)

up to should not exist any more, sales is all about average speeds