An update. Had a call back from BT exec complaints to confirm the address DB was wrong all along. FTTP is and never was available for order, for me.

I had offered to fund the cost of expansion of the network from FTTP enabled neighbour down the road but got a big fat 'no'. The only alternative from the complaints guy was of course a leased line solution, but I can't imagine a PoP being anywhere near by.

I feel they are very keen to close this as the end of the road for me, but it's infuriating.

Perhaps hard or not going to help if the database is wrong, but have you tried looking up both your and a number of neighbours properties on both sides (appreciate they are no doubt some distance away in rural mid-Wales!)? And then plotting those results on the map to see whom can really get it, and where the trail runs cold? Of course, looking at the "news", it could be another of these many unfinished installs across Wales, where some vital but impossible to spot component is missing. If would help to know/see more of the infrastructure you've commented on on the pole you say is 150m away from your property too... and how you can trace the lines from there.... is that say on a trunk along the valley, and from it there are 3 or 4 poles coming the 150m direct to your house?

The more data you have, the more chance you may have to convince someone to take this further.

What do Superfast Cymru (https://beta.gov.wales/go-superfast/) also say about your property? And have you "contacted them" as per here: https://beta.gov.wales/go-superfast/contact-us

In Hampshire the local team seem to respond to residents via Twitter/email with particular address enquiries, which should at least advise you if they think they've paid Openreach to deliver a service to you, or not.

Also, as this was BT exec complaints, was that essentially BT Wholesale (nearer the Openreach end of things), rather than "consumer BT" whom you placed your order with? And does that terminate your order fully, or can you go back to consumer BT and explore there again? Or even place an order through another more customer-focussed ISP, if their systems still imply you can get FTTP?

Edited by deleted (Mon 06-Aug-18 14:51:03)

Thanks for your extensive reply.

As time goes on that is what I'm trying to do - build a picture of who can and can't get this connectivity. Early indication is that all properties in the hamlet can obtain FTTP, as well as my neighbour who is 200m closer to the hamlet down the lane. Other properties near mine or further out can't (there's probably about 10 who are stuck with ADSL).

With it being deep dark Wales, a lot of the properties have Welsh spellings and in many cases no sign identifying the properties at all. So looking them up is challenging. With more referring to OS maps and gaining more area knowledge (I've only lived here for 3 months), I will be able to look more up.

To me it seems quite clearly a question of difficulty and commercials: the more distance places have been ignored given the cost of upgrade. I can appreciate this, with a 95% roll out, someone has to be in the 5%!

The mystery in all of this is the fibre at the bottom of the valley that just sails past my house and two other neighbours. I'm still trying to figure out where this goes or what its for. At first thoughts you'd think it'd be for another node or the next village along. But the size of the fibre looks small (same thickness as the leased line at work which is just 2 tails), which leads me to think that this must just go to properties rather than other nodes or infrastructure. And these are at the end of the no-thru road lane. There's only two more properties. The geography makes it difficult to see much more.

When I get a min I will draw a sketch of the infrastructure.

I am in talks with the Welsh Assembly as they've been very helpful sorting out business broadband issues from years ago, so will explore the Superfast Cymru route.

The exec complaint was lodged through the Welsh Assembly. I am assuming its on the consumer side. AFAIK the order was fully terminated over a week ago when Openreach cancelled it. BT have pretty much nailed it down so there's nothing left to go back to them on - all things I had asked they have come back with 'no', apart from saying I should look at Leased Lines and they'll get a Leased Line person to call me.

All the online DSL checkers, OR "when and where" sites have since been updated to show I am not FTTP capable. But I have considered other ISPs might be more helpful, so I have lodged enquiries with Spectrum.

Assuming the properties share a postcode... or you can identify the collection of local postcodes... if you visit http://www.dslchecker.bt.com/adsl/adslchecker.address and just enter the postcode(s), you get back a list of the properties BT Wholesale have registered. Can help you map/address quest.


Looking at pole mounted fibre from the ground, I'd expect it to be hard to see how many fibres it actually contains... I'm used to fibre, but I was struck by how small this fibre serving an 8-port DP was compared to the copper cables already in the chamber. And the fact that a splitter can serve 32 or more premises, you don't need a lot to go far. In that area I'm sure any "trunk" deployed will serve the full route, even if not all premises are yet served.


Noting the geography you describe it'd be interesting how Openreach got there... or if any of your neighbours saw and spoke to them when they did. I'm assuming from the description the poles don't run down the lane/road/track serving the properties concerned? Also if you've spoken to any neighbours about whether they want or tried ordering FTTP themselves? Do the checkers still show it available for them, or has it been removed from all beyond the a certain point?

Will be good to see the sketch, though for you trying to find anyone in Openreach to have a meaningful conversation about it will no doubt be a challenge! And if there is just one jigsaw piece missing, the fact only those with FTTC can order FTTPoD means trying the "community of 1" route that I think has been suggested may be your only practical route forwards

Assuming the properties share a postcode... or you can identify the collection of local postcodes... if you visit http://www.dslchecker.bt.com/adsl/adslchecker.address and just enter the postcode(s), you get back a list of the properties BT Wholesale have registered. Can help you map/address quest.

Yes I've been doing that already, but thanks for sharing.

Looking at pole mounted fibre from the ground, I'd expect it to be hard to see how many fibres it actually contains... I'm used to fibre, but I was struck by how small this fibre serving an 8-port DP was compared to the copper cables already in the chamber. And the fact that a splitter can serve 32 or more premises, you don't need a lot to go far. In that area I'm sure any "trunk" deployed will serve the full route, even if not all premises are yet served.

Very interesting to note! May have a walk down the lane tonight and see if I can identify where these cables are going.
On another note, in that photo you linked, what is the black gland type thing? You see them everywhere on poles round here. Are they splitters/nodes?

Noting the geography you describe it'd be interesting how Openreach got there... or if any of your neighbours saw and spoke to them when they did. I'm assuming from the description the poles don't run down the lane/road/track serving the properties concerned? Also if you've spoken to any neighbours about whether they want or tried ordering FTTP themselves? Do the checkers still show it available for them, or has it been removed from all beyond the a certain point?

A picture will paint a thousand words but from what I can see the poles run from the road at the bottom of the lane and then go off through fields/trees nearer the stream at the bottom of the valley than the roads either side. There are a few properties in the valley that the poles go past. These are the ones that AFACS cannot get FTTP.

I'm sure in time I'll find out more from speaking with other neighbours. Judging from markings on the poles all this work seemed to happen around May 2017.

Will be good to see the sketch, though for you trying to find anyone in Openreach to have a meaningful conversation about it will no doubt be a challenge! And if there is just one jigsaw piece missing, the fact only those with FTTC can order FTTPoD means trying the "community of 1" route that I think has been suggested may be your only practical route forwards

Yep, I am just waiting on Mr Saffron for that, I think this is what he was kindly going to explore for me.

In reply to a post by 512uk:

An update. Had a call back from BT exec complaints to confirm the address DB was wrong all along. FTTP is and never was available for order, for me.

I had offered to fund the cost of expansion of the network from FTTP enabled neighbour down the road but got a big fat 'no'. The only alternative from the complaints guy was of course a leased line solution, but I can't imagine a PoP being anywhere near by.

I feel they are very keen to close this as the end of the road for me, but it's infuriating.

It sound very much like they have got so far up your rural road, with all the properties before yours being able to order FTTP.
Then from your property and beyond none of you can order FTTP.

This is very common, particularly in rural parts of Wales where there has been lots of Welsh government funded FTTP.
Andrew (MrSaffron) has wrote quite a bit about the Welsh program ending mid-way through lots of projects with many areas being left part finished.
They have done lots of last minute running about making agreements with OpenReach to finish as many areas as possible but I'm sure the work is completely finished now.
There's not much hope of convincing anyone to reopen closed projects.

That sounds like the end of native WBC-FTTP for you.
You're absolutely spot on in how you summed it up, on a 95% coverage rollout there's always going to be a few who are missed.

If FTTPod doesn't show as available to you (it requires you to be connected to an FTTC cabinet even if too far away to order it) then OpenReach CFP may be your only option for now.
It would be worth looking into of you were willing to fund them extending FTTP to you.
It sounds like much like the infrastructure is already nearby.
Would any of your neighbours further up the road be interested in contributing to this?

You may well be covered in the next round of funding but I have no idea when that is.

Edited by j0hn83 (Mon 06-Aug-18 17:27:47)

Fate of next set of Welsh contracts due in Autumn apparently

They are not lightning speed at responding and my money is on what you've said in thread, i.e. its pay for it all yourself or wait on Welsh Assembly. Suspect they have stopped at one DP and you would have been the next one if the project had kept going.

Fibre cables can fit 44 fibres into a cable almost the same size as the small ones that feed the DP, the use of Kevlar to give strength has helped reduce cable size, especially if you compare with blown fibre tubing.

In reply to a post by 512uk:

Very interesting to note! May have a walk down the lane tonight and see if I can identify where these cables are going.
On another note, in that photo you linked, what is the black gland type thing? You see them everywhere on poles round here. Are they splitters/nodes?

From that linked picture of a chamber and fibre reel: They are covers for copper cable joints. Nothing to do with fibre.

In reply to a post by sidef:

In reply to a post by 512uk:

Very interesting to note! May have a walk down the lane tonight and see if I can identify where these cables are going.
On another note, in that photo you linked, what is the black gland type thing? You see them everywhere on poles round here. Are they splitters/nodes?

From that linked picture of a chamber and fibre reel: They are covers for copper cable joints. Nothing to do with fibre.

Yes, that's the existing copper joint or DP in the chamber that they were adding the fibre DP (CBT - connectorised block terminal) to. The fibre DP was hidden in the middle of the (corrugated plastic) fibre reel when the photograph was taken.