Reporting incorrect DSL checker VDSL estimates

Hi

How do I go about reporting incorrect BT DSL checker VDSL estimates for my postcode? For example the overhead DP I am connected has 5 lines off it, most of the 5 all have different estimates, not sure why, as each of the 5 lines is 1000m or little more from the cabinet, so shouldn't vary as much as it does and some of those with higher estimates have longer drop lines then my house. For example below are my estimates from the DSL checker for VDSL and ADSL, my house has the lowest estimates, which I think are few meg out in terms of what I get in terms of attainable rate on my modem and for the estimates given, but 31 maybe a little high. I haven�t included other ADSL estimates for the overhead DP are they are the same as mine.

Address xxx on Exchange SELBY is served by Cabinet 6
High Low High Low
VDSL Range A (Clean) 31 20 6.3 4.2 17.3 Available Available
VDSL Range B (Impacted) 30 17.5 6.3 3.7 13.9 Available Available
My line is banded at 20mbps and has been like that for 1 year or more now, the speed is likely to get worse as Cabinet 6 is currently in the process of getting expanded, so more crosstalk. I am on an ECI DSLAM so no G.INP either.

Below is the estimate for my friend again on the same DP as me, however he gets slower speed than me at 16-18mbps most of the time and rarely goes above that, so not sure why his estimates are higher, when he can�t get that and never has been able to. He got 25mbps when he first bought the service in 2012 not long after the cabinet was enabled for FTTC.

Address xxxx on Exchange SELBY is served by Cabinet 6
High Low High Low
VDSL Range A (Clean) 35.2 22.4 7.5 5 19.1 Available Available
VDSL Range B (Impacted) 34.7 19.9 7.3 4.7 15.6 Available Available

Below is a neighbour on the opposite site of the road again served by the same overhead DP. Their estimates are near 40 which they will never get.

Address xxxx on Exchange SELBY is served by Cabinet 6
High Low High Low
VDSL Range A (Clean) 38.2 25 7.7 5.4 20.5 Available Available
VDSL Range B (Impacted) 36.6 21.4 7.6 5 16.8 Available Available

Below is the house on the opposite side of the road with the DP just outside their house. Their estimates are completely wrong, there line goes underground instead of to the overhead DP but is still 1000m from the cabinet. Also their ADSL estimates are wrong in comparison to mine and others in the area.

Address xxxx on Exchange SELBY is served by Cabinet 6
High Low High Low
VDSL Range A (Clean) 80 79 20 19 78 Available Available
VDSL Range B (Impacted) 80 79 20 19 78 Available Available
FTTP on Demand 330 30 -- Available --
ADSL Products
WBC ADSL 2+ Up to 6 -- 4 to 8 Available --
WBC ADSL 2+ Annex M Up to 6 Up to 1 4 to 8 Available --
ADSL Max Up to 5 -- 3.5 to 7.5 Available --

Below are the estimates for only two houses on the DP further down the road about 900m from the cab, ironically they lower but the first one is more accurate for our DP, should be swapped really.

Address xxxx on Exchange SELBY is served by Cabinet 6

High Low High Low
VDSL Range A (Clean) 28 18 5 2.9 16 Available Available
VDSL Range B (Impacted) 27.4 16.2 5 2.7 12.9 Available Available

and

Address xxxx on Exchange SELBY is served by Cabinet 6
Featured Products

High Low High Low
VDSL Range A (Clean) 26.6 16.6 4.3 2.4 14.8 Available Available
VDSL Range B (Impacted) 25.9 15 4.3 2.2 11.6 Available Available

I feel these estimates may have some bearing on the proposed phase 3 rollout form superfast North Yorkshire near where I live, only 3 properties proposed on my part of the postcode, 2 of the 3 have higher estimates than my line and the third 16.1mbps down estimated so that last one make sense. My neighbour next me again on the same DP has estimates of 33.3 down max but gets similar speed of 20-21mbps down like myself. How do I go about getting the estimates amended as they do seem out considering the distance from the cab? Does anyone know why there be a difference in estimates between nearly all 5 lines I think or two have the same estimates. Also does the checker change if crosstalk increases? Any other information you need please let me know. Sorry for the long post.

Attainable rate is not used for estimates - but the actual connection speed, which may explain your differences.

In first instance it should be the people you pay money to for providing your broadband i.e. your ISP

As for why lines physically close give different estimates - internal wiring, different number of joints, repairs over the years and a myriad of other issues can lead to the different figures.

Also, these are just estimates of what might be achieved, and depend very much on local conditions. If you are getting 20M, when the estimate is 20-31M, then you are still within the estimated band (just).

Your mate getting 16-18M might be able to raise a fault with their ISP. They are below the 19.1M "clean" handback threshold, but not below 15.6M "impacted". If the ISP declines to raise a fault, they could also pay for a visit to optimise their connection - I think it's called "Broadband Boost" or "Superfast Recharge".

These speed estimates do change over time. My original upstream estimate range was 5-7M, but I was consistently only getting around 4.5M. The estimate has now changed to 4-6M. I don't know if that is in response to the actual line rate seen, or changes to their model which predicts speed for given lines.

Edited by candlerb (Fri 04-Jan-19 15:48:19)

In my area the local BDUK programmes web site has a map showing who can and cannot get 30 meg and if its wrong they allow you to report it but they do expect evidence (the BT Checker now has an observed speed section when entering the full telephone number). Have you checked the superfast North Yorkshire web site.

In reply to a post by Computerman142:

I feel these estimates may have some bearing on the proposed phase 3 rollout form superfast North Yorkshire near where I live, only 3 properties proposed on my part of the postcode, 2 of the 3 have higher estimates than my line and the third 16.1mbps down estimated so that last one make sense. My neighbour next me again on the same DP has estimates of 33.3 down max but gets similar speed of 20-21mbps down like myself. How do I go about getting the estimates amended as they do seem out considering the distance from the cab? Does anyone know why there be a difference in estimates between nearly all 5 lines I think or two have the same estimates. Also does the checker change if crosstalk increases? Any other information you need please let me know. Sorry for the long post.

Is this a BDUK roll out? If so you are probably too late, the plans will already have been made.
For our area the contact is made throu the local councils website, you can badger the local officer to point out that the info they are basing work on might not be correct, but from my experience, it has little effect as they don't like to admit to making any mistakes.

Is your friends line the sync speed or the result of speed tests?

The estimates differ for good reason. They are also just estimates, and not always very accurate.

My DP has 12 properties and the estimates vary roughly similar to your DP.
The sync of most of my neighbours differs greatly though.

I get 45Mb sync which is roughly my Range A high estimate.
My neighbour on the same DP has a Range A high estimate of 32Mb, and he syncs about 30MB.

Your banding may have an impact on your estimates.
Different lines experience different levels of crosstalk.
Some lines may have sections of Aluminium while others may not.

It shouldn't be as simple as all the lines on the same DP have very similar estimates, or those with longer drop wires should have slower estimates.

The only anomaly I see there is the 1 line showing 80Mb estimates.
The rest look like many other DP's.

No idea how you could ever get these "corrected".
I don't think they would even acknowledge they are incorrect, apart from the 80Mb line you mentioned.

@MrSaffron I could but I don't fancy speaking to TalkTalk as I wont get anywhere if I do, haven't done on any previous occasion. I spoke to someone at work who said someone with a contact with openreach could ask for them to looked at. Ironically the person who told me that are part of the Superfast West Yorkshire and York and speak to Openreach but said they couldn't as they are not looking after north Yorkshire scheme.

That's odd though, for example my friend with the below estimates, his drop is the older grey 1 pair type that looks like speaker wire, not the twisted pair like the other 4 lines on the DP. His line then goes into a round jointbox, then a twisted pair black drop line out the bottom into the back of his master socket and mk1 faceplate. His line looks to be in worse condition then any others but still has higher estimates. However only managed to 16-18mbps at best based of sync rate.
Address xxxx on Exchange SELBY is served by Cabinet 6
High Low High Low
VDSL Range A (Clean) 35.2 22.4 7.5 5 19.1 Available Available
VDSL Range B (Impacted) 34.7 19.9 7.3 4.7 15.6 Available Available

Not sure why those next to the dp, however their line goes underground gets the below as there line is still 1000m away from the cab so will never get that. That is openreach database issue probably.
Address xxxx on Exchange SELBY is served by Cabinet 6
High Low High Low
VDSL Range A (Clean) 80 79 20 19 78 Available Available
VDSL Range B (Impacted) 80 79 20 19 78 Available Available
FTTP on Demand 330 30 -- Available --
ADSL Products
WBC ADSL 2+ Up to 6 -- 4 to 8 Available --
WBC ADSL 2+ Annex M Up to 6 Up to 1 4 to 8 Available --
ADSL Max Up to 5 -- 3.5 to 7.5 Available --

@candlerb I have seen mine go down over time they were the same by neighbour next me once. My friend doesn't want to go through the faff of ringing his ISP, I mentioned he could but he doesn't seem bothered.

@j0hn83 thank you for your explanation, makes a bit more sense, though the older houses are those with higher estimates, though you would of though there lines are older. As mentioned above I have been told that someone with a contact on openreach could ask to get them looked at or at least the 80mbps one.

@dect I have unfortunately they don't offer that facility to report less than 30mbps. I have checked a lot recently, last year only part of the village had red dots on proposed propeties, however now the the other half of the middle of the village has red dots. There is two green circles covering the village to say its 30mbps or plus 30mbps, despite the middle part of the village being unable to order anything near that speed. I had read an article on ispreview that you can report poor speeds and they will look into it, but who I report that too I've no idea. this is the quote

In reference to www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2018/12/north-yorkshire-uk-questions-...:

Councillor Don Mackenzie said:

�Generally speaking, premises that are more than 1,200 metres from a cabinet will see download speeds drop off.

�If people want to know about the service that they can expect they should visit the Superfast North Yorkshire website. If people have ongoing concerns about speeds we will carry out an investigation for them.�

I have spoken to Superfast North Yorkshire, who say my property is under consideration, however I did mention I only get 20mbps sync and said I can provide evidence should they need it but they just sent this as a generic response: "Good morning

Thank you for contacting Superfast North Yorkshire (SFNY).

Your premise is under consideration for inclusion in Phase 3, but at this time we are unable to confirm if it will be included, or not. We will be publishing updates to the maps on the SFNY website as more premises are �Proposed�.

We will have more information by the end of the year in relation to Phase 3. Please do not hesitate to contact us in a few months.

Kindest regards"

I will be a bit miffed if it isn't included considering my neighbour opposite who has higher estimates than me has red dot on there property on the map and considering I cant get plus 24mbps.

@Burble yeah its phase 3 BDUK rollout I think most of which is FTTP not 100% sure. All the properties in middle of the village say proposed an not planned so doesn't looked to have finalised it yet.

In reply to a post by Computerman142:

Your premise is under consideration for inclusion in Phase 3, but at this time we are unable to confirm if it will be included, or not.

The only positive I would take from this is that you are being considered, in my area BDUK won't even consider properties they think are getting 30 meg so maybe they are not sure

Edited by deleted (Fri 04-Jan-19 17:26:52)

Your ECI cabinet being "expanded" means a shiny new Huawei cabinet is arriving.
This is in addition to the ECI and not a replacement.

OpenReach currently refuse to arrange port swaps between the 2 cabinet vendors (for obvious reasons, or everyone would ask for this).
It is however possible to order a 2nd line when the Huawei goes live and be fed from that.
The 1st line can then be cancelled.
A temp swap to ADSL can achieve the same.

The difference between the 2 cabinet types can be considerable when you take DLM changes into account.
Interleaved @ 6dB target SNRM I get about 30Mb (ECI).
G.INP @ 3dB target SNRM I get about 45Mb (Huawei).

Just a little self help advice if BDUK don't cover you.

What's your lines attainable without the banding? I'm not sure if BDUK work on the actual sync and take the DLM banding into account.