Hi

Of course the eventual aim is to remove copper, as it would be to too costly to run both a full FTTP network over the top of copper and maintain it.

Openreach of course are looking for the relaxation of rules etc that might restrict what they can make obsolete where LLU is concerned, and companies like TalkTalk and Vodafone and others are building their own fibre networks with this eventual removal of copper in mind. I doubt if PSTN switch off will happen by 2025 as a lot needs to be done first, not to mention education to the general public.

In terms of setting up VoIP - it is as simple as plug in a device to the mains and the phone line and then connect the phone to that.

Maybe for the demographic that visit this forum it's simple, but a lot of people don't have any internet so it wouldn't be that easy. Some elderly relatives I know who limp along on ADSL only turn it on when they use it which isn't very often. I have parents/in-laws and neighbours who don't have any internet connection at all or mobile phones, and there is a whole host of vulnerable people that would struggle with this sort of simple task. To say it's simple is patronising to many groups of people.

I think in the years to come it will become less PSTN transition to VoIP, but more of a PSTN complete switch off. This is about BT Openreach becoming a data provider rather than a telephone company, which makes perfect sense.

If people want an "old style" home phone, they buy the VoIP box themselves and sign up elsewhere for it, otherwise it's using a mobile phone or Skype or it's equivalent.

Regards

Phil

Edited by deleted (Thu 14-Feb-19 10:22:30)

In reply to a post by j0hn83:

The E-Side is not directly connected to the D-Side.
They are connected via filters which filter of the xDSL signal.

The cause of the disconnections is "probably" on the D-Side.
A whole lot more than probably though.

I've never heard of an E-Side issue breaking sync on the D-Side VDSL2 link.

The E & D Sides might well be connected via filters in the DSLAM yes, but they very much are connected together and faults on the E side such as battery & earth contact do go right through those filters and effect the end customer, including VDSL sync. The only thing the filters do in the DSLAM is filter out the ADSL frequencies so they don't interfere with the VDSL signal on the d side, they don't filter or stop anything else. So any other fault on the E side, will flow right through them.

Granted the odds of this fault is more likely to be on the d side rather than e side though, but without proper testing it is impossible to say for sure. It could be the drop wire, a d side joint (anywhere), a faulty d side pair in the cable length, a fibre port, the master socket, cross-talk (although less likely if the fibre cab is new).... The list goes on.

Eventual aim, but taking about ripping out lots of copper by 2025 is scaremongering

If you are asserting that a lot of people cannot plug something into a mains wall plug and another lead into the phone socket and plug the phone into that, then I am very surprised that sales of DECT phones are as high as they are. Since a VoIP handset should be as simple as that, i.e. sent out all pre-configured by the retailer of the phone service.

The debate is around the vulnerable group and identifying them, e.g. those who will require battery back up and someone to plug it in, or just check they have followed the instructions.

Voice over Broadband will not need you to have an Internet subscription.

Under current plans, if you don't like the voice over broadband transition then the old unpowered handsets will continue to work if you sign up to a TalkTalk FULL LLU service.

Hi

Eventual aim, but taking about ripping out lots of copper by 2025 is scaremongering

I wasn't scaremongering, who was I trying to scare. As areas and towns are converted over to full FTTP the old copper infrastructure will be removed, if nothing else the accountants will see to that. It's obvious it will happen, and needs to happen.

Also new large housing developments are FTTP only now, there is no option for LLU as there isn't any copper, and no one seems concerned that LLU isn't available. LLU is out-dated now, and there is no LLU equivalent for G.Fast or VDSL and as more people move to faster services, LLU becomes even less of an issue.

As for DECT cordless phones, again I have relatives that only use corded phones, they have no interest in cordless phones because it confuses them or they are too small to use, and in one case, she kept losing the handset!

Under current plans, if you don't like the voice over broadband transition then the old unpowered handsets will continue to work if you sign up to a TalkTalk FULL LLU service.

Well TalkTalk will need to either buy the exchanges from BT or cover more and more of the running costs if they want to become a PSTN phone provider. Openreach are not going to invests billions of pounds in a modern FTTP network and still pay to run exchanges they have no use for just so TalkTalk can offer a POTs line to Auntie Jean. I also suspect for TalkTalk they have no interest and next to no profit in offering just a telephone line over POTs, as it stands, try finding the option to buy just a regular telephone service on their website.

The future is data only for OpenReach, it has been really for a number of years. A large number of people only have a landline because they want Internet (us included), and the landline phone goes unused or isn't even plugged in. I think however what we have seen so far from the industry and pundits alike is that the transition to a complete VoIP solution is over simplified, as whilst the percentage is small, there are still large numbers of people that a VoIP solution isn't going to be a solution.

Regards

Phil

In reply to a post by j0hn83:

If you think they keep the E-Side after disabling PSTN/ADSL you're very wrong.

I will refer you to previous comments made by Icaras and kitcat and I trust their comments.

In reply to a post by j0hn83:

I was commenting on the suggestion that E-Side is necessary for copper line test facilities. It is not.

Incorrect and witchunt has also confirmed this.

In reply to a post by witchunt:

Also currently needed for line testing

If you think after PSTN/ADSL is disabled they are going to keep/maintain the E-Side for conducting copper line tests on the D-Side then you're naive.

I'd be amazed if they kept the non GEA exchanges open.

Not really bothered who you quote. Isn't going to happen.

In reply to a post by j0hn83:

Not really bothered who you quote. Isn't going to happen.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

>No not at the Cab or DSLAM, BT's service will be VOIP

If not at those two locations, where will it be?

Remember this VoIP will also work with people who are not subscribing to a retail broadband ISP

I am interpreting your comment that you think or know that BT are going to put there VOIP kit in the Cab/DSLAM, which really surprises me.

I imagined it would be centrally held and those only wanting a phone would get a locked down xDSL service with a ATA connected to it.

In reply to a post by TheInstaller:

In reply to a post by j0hn83:

The E-Side is not directly connected to the D-Side.
They are connected via filters which filter of the xDSL signal.

The cause of the disconnections is "probably" on the D-Side.
A whole lot more than probably though.

I've never heard of an E-Side issue breaking sync on the D-Side VDSL2 link.

The E & D Sides might well be connected via filters in the DSLAM yes, but they very much are connected together and faults on the E side such as battery & earth contact do go right through those filters and effect the end customer, including VDSL sync. The only thing the filters do in the DSLAM is filter out the ADSL frequencies so they don't interfere with the VDSL signal on the d side, they don't filter or stop anything else. So any other fault on the E side, will flow right through them.

Granted the odds of this fault is more likely to be on the d side rather than e side though, but without proper testing it is impossible to say for sure. It could be the drop wire, a d side joint (anywhere), a faulty d side pair in the cable length, a fibre port, the master socket, cross-talk (although less likely if the fibre cab is new).... The list goes on.

Agree with you 100%