There is no connection at all between the two technologies Max, and in five year's time both will be largely obsolescent and redundant. Both are stop-gap solutions to make Openreach coverage stats look good on the (relative) cheap.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

In reply to a post by Alucidnation:

Ok thanks.

With regards to the nearest agg node, this was put in a year or two ago.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@50.8515407,-1.7708868...

This isn't anywhere near my cabinet. Almost twice the distance from house that my own cab.

Mine, is a bit further down and closer to my house,.

This is a right next door to my pcp, but i am guessing it either not in use, or hasnt needed to be opened for a while, as it has almost collapsed.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@50.8538835,-1.7700135...

That second link shows an AIO (All-in-one) cabinet. A combo PCP and FTTC cabinet.

Yes that is my PCP (12), but i thought the fibre cabinet was the one dead ahead with the fibre sticker on it?

Also, that cabinet 12 now has two pods on it, one at each end.

I was thinking the sunken lid on the chamber was an agg node, but i wouldn't be that lucky!

In reply to a post by Alucidnation:

With regards to the nearest agg node, this was put in a year or two ago.

The agg node which serves your FTTC cabinet would have been there before the FTTC cabinet went in, or installed at the same time. It's possible that a new agg node has gone in since, but not likely.

The new chamber you see could be for various purposes - perhaps for a leased line someone has had installed. Unfortunately that doesn't help you: leased line infrastructure is completely distinct from FTTP infrastructure.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

There is no connection at all between the two technologies Max, and in five year's time both will be largely obsolescent and redundant. Both are stop-gap solutions to make Openreach coverage stats look good on the (relative) cheap.

Given my quote above for my brother's site of £22k (14 B&B rooms, plus 12 lodges). The above comment filled me with glee and horror. Especially as I am hopefully having my FTTPoD finished tomorrow at a cost of £12.5k.

What will be obsolescent, the rollout, or the fibre itself. I know 5G will come but unlikely to hit rural areas for a while (don't have 4G, and don't have much coverage on EE just O2 & Voda). Plus for larger sites I am not certain a mobile network will want the traffic.

I believe each fibre can currently un up to 2.4Gbps and probably faster with differing head and client hardware.

What do you think is next?

Dave

Edited by F00tS0re (Mon 11-Mar-19 09:37:03)

Hi

The stop gap solution is really G.Fast plus VDSL, and ADSL before that was really only a stop gap. For data of any speed and reliability you really need data cable not decades old telephone cable that wasn't really that good for voice let alone data, and fibre is the ultimate data cable.

The main aim and push now is fibre to every property, so VDSL and G.Fast will be redundant. Paying for FTTP on demand gets you fibre earlier, how much earlier is hard to say. However it will take ten or more years before the majority of the UK has fibre.

As for FTTP it isn't going to be redundant for a very long time, if at all in any of our lifetimes, plus once fibre is in, it can carry ever faster speeds by just connecting different kit at each end, and already 10Gbps is out there and in use.

The gamble anyone takes with FTTP on demand is would it have arrived for free anyway in a reasonable time frame? Is it worth £20K just to get fibre say 2 or 5 years earlier than you would have done anyway? That answer will vary for individual circumstances of course.

Regards

Phil

Edited by deleted (Mon 11-Mar-19 10:05:51)

Looks like a Huawei cab, ECI cab and a PCP with an extension, and by the sounds of it now also has a G. Fast pod.

In reply to a post by PhilipD:

Hi

The stop gap solution is really G.Fast plus VDSL, and ADSL before that was really only a stop gap. For data of any speed and reliability you really need data cable not decades old telephone cable that wasn't really that good for voice let alone data, and fibre is the ultimate data cable.

The main aim and push now is fibre to every property, so VDSL and G.Fast will be redundant. Paying for FTTP on demand gets you fibre earlier, how much earlier is hard to say. However it will take ten or more years before the majority of the UK has fibre.

As for FTTP it isn't going to be redundant for a very long time, if at all in any of our lifetimes, plus once fibre is in, it can carry ever faster speeds by just connecting different kit at each end, and already 10Gbps is out there and in use.

The gamble anyone takes with FTTP on demand is would it have arrived for free anyway in a reasonable time frame? Is it worth £20K just to get fibre say 2 or 5 years earlier than you would have done anyway? That answer will vary for individual circumstances of course.

Regards

Phil

Thanks Phil, sorry hadn't realised in was G.Fast that was the stop gap. On that I would agree.

Mine was £12.5k, but we are a set of holiday cottages, so to some extent definitely worth it, spread over the next 3-years I don't need that many bookings lost due to complaints on broadband speed. North Yorkshire has had a lot of money spent on superfast through SFNY, I had a a couple of calls with them and the next two phases are mapped and I'm not on them, or close to it. We are a dead end lane with only 1 domestic property and 2 mixed use sites. They suggested on current funding levels they would get to me 'in a long time or 'never', which ever was the latter.

I had a desktop quote of £29,100, but opted to survey and got a cost of £12,500, nd went ahead. My brother runs a similar site and got a desktop quote of £6,500 but a surveyed quote of £25,000-£2500 voucher! Mostly civil works, I assume that half his lane must be DiG, but with some 14 houses on it I would be surprised. Half his lane is on poles so that should be cheap. Need to get out and walk his lane, I told him to do it but he did it in the car and didn't see any ground boxes ([censored])

I do know that he is on the last working pair available, and has a fault raised for a noisy line. It is intermittent and first time engineer came it was OK. Not sure what happens if they have to run new phone cable, will they duct the DiG section. (they have had a few faults over the years due to trees taking the line out in the lane).

Dave

The reason I will never get FTTPoD at my house because my house belong to the social council as it would be a waste of money if I went ahead with FTTPoD and later council landlord ask me to move and I would lose lots of money.

FTTPoD are ok for mortgage outright owner but not ok for any private rent or council rent.

I could help my parents to get FTTPoD as they already pay off the mortgage 15 years ago. But they don't want to waste money on expensive FTTPoD. They are happy with FTTC 60/15 for now.

In reply to a post by F00tS0re:

What will be obsolescent, the rollout, or the fibre itself. I know 5G will come but unlikely to hit rural areas for a while (don't have 4G, and don't have much coverage on EE just O2 & Voda). Plus for larger sites I am not certain a mobile network will want the traffic.

I believe each fibre can currently un up to 2.4Gbps and probably faster with differing head and client hardware.

What do you think is next?

The physical fibre is unlikely to become obsolete in the lifetime of anyone alive today. If you had put in some single mode fibre 25 years ago for 10Mbps Ethernet you could go out and buy new optics for either end and use the very same fibre for 100Gbps tomorrow, and that's only the limit for what is widely commercially available. The fibre itself is good for at least 1Tbps and that's just the limit for what has been tested in the lab for a single wavelength. In all likelihood better optics either end will push it out further in the future.

Nothing in the history of computing has had and or is likely to have such a long run as single mode fibre optic cabling.

Clearly G-PON has a limited shelf life already, with XG-PON and/or XGS-PON being the next step. Ultimately I think the emerging CDWM-PON or a full PtP will be the winner.

Regardless the main hurdle for the future is from the final splitter to the premise.

The thing with 5G is if it where to replace fixed fibre optic you would need to have a mast on practically every street lamp, at which point you might as well put in the fibre to the premise to begin with and be ready for more bandwidth down the line. Basically 5G is the last throw of the dice for mobile, it's the equivalent of G.fast/VDSL-35b for copper.

In reply to a post by adslmax:

The reason I will never get FTTPoD at my house because my house belong to the social council as it would be a waste of money if I went ahead with FTTPoD and later council landlord ask me to move and I would lose lots of money.

FTTPoD are ok for mortgage outright owner but not ok for any private rent or council rent.

Agreed, and the landlord, private or council, is unlikely to see it as a valuable addition to the property. I have rental properties and spending £5k to improve an adequate broadband service to an outstanding one doesn't figure on the investment chart. It's not like they need FTTP to rent, and unlikely to generate a premium rent because of it. Let's say £6000 FTTPoD cost, 5-year ROI (which is a long time), £1200 per annum cost excluding interest. Would you accept £100 per month rent increase for FTTPoD, I doubt my tenants would thank me. And I wouldn't even make any money for risk of capital.

FTTPoD is like Tesla cars, and other tech goods. The early adopters get it first because they pay the most, the price we pay helps the industry streamline the deployment and reduce the cost for those coming later. We are paying for a bespoke fibre rollout. They have pulled 2km of fibre for my property, all those who it passes will get it cheaper.

That said FTTPoD will always be more expensive than standard FTTP rollout, or area schemes like SuperFastNorthYorkshire, the density provides obvious cost savings.

In reply to a post by adslmax:

I could help my parents to get FTTPoD as they already pay off the mortgage 15 years ago. But they don't want to waste money on expensive FTTPoD. They are happy with FTTC 60/15 for now.

If they get 60/15 or anything close to it then FFTP isn't required. FTTC is fine for most domestic situations.

There are few internet activities where 60/15 isn't ample, streaming is only 4Mbps. But most of the posters on here have ADSL not VDSL connections so 5/1 not 60/15. Throw in working from home, or a gaming habit and suddenly FTTPoD becomes desirable. We can have 45 people on site sharing a 5Mbps connection, we need FTTP. The real gaming addicts want FTTPoD to reduce latency not bandwidth.