To add some numbers to the new build overlap i.e. new homes with two or more FTTP where one is Openreach

2018 UK wide this was around 12,000 premises
2017 9000 premises
2016 6700 premises
2015 3700 premises
2014 3700 premises

So new build makes up 35,100 of the overlap. So impact on alt-nets once outside the competitive new build arena is smaller than original numbers and hence why I don't bang about it apart from talking about the new build picture.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

2.6% of fib premises that have OR + another and if you remove Hyperoptic and Virgin Media it will look even smaller

In other words - a very low amount of overbuild.

The original question though was whether an altnet had planned to come to an area, and then changed their mind after OR came along.

If the altnet had *publicly* committed to covering an area, and then *publicly* withdrew after OR announced or started building, then I think that would have raised a big stink. I don't remember seeing anything like this.

Many of the 'altnets' are owned or bankrolled by firms that are much larger than BT. Such as Gigaclear, Vodafone and CityFibre for example. Indeed CityFibre build has benefited from extensive State Aid.

These firms are owned by or bankrolled by big boys who are not strangled by regulation and should be able to withstand competition from smaller firms like BT and Virgin Media.

Edited by deleted (Fri 10-May-19 22:01:14)

According to the report regarding the release of BT's annual results in The Times published on 10/05/19, Philip Jansen, the new Chief Executive, quoted a historic figure of from £300 to £400 per premises for the delivery of FTTP. Openreach forecasts that it can complete about half UK premises, mostly in urban areas, within this range, More rural locations could cost ten times a much.

There is an edited version of the article behind The Times paywall at https://www.thetimes.co.uk/past-six-days/2019-05-10/.... However the edit has removed a lot of the detail (including the indicative costings) which was published in the printed version.

PS Don't shoot the messenger. "Premises" is exactly as per the wording of the printed article in The Times and is not my choice of words.

In reply to a post by partial:

Many of the 'altnets' are owned or bankrolled by firms that are much larger than BT. Such as Gigaclear, Vodafone and CityFibre for example. Indeed CityFibre build has benefited from extensive State Aid.

These firms are owned by or bankrolled by big boys who are not strangled by regulation and should be able to withstand competition from smaller firms like BT and Virgin Media.

Most is ott. Some certainly but many are small.

Not sure of the point?

I covered the ramp up of the ambition to 15 million and commitment change from 4m to 3m in news.

This thread is talking about overlap

Certainly I've seen cases where Openreach suddenly advance their timetables (by years) when fixed-wireless operators announce they are going to cover an area; or overbuild existing FWA networks which, whilst not classed as superfast due to opaque OMR assessments, provided more than adequate speeds.

In reply to a post by partial:

Indeed CityFibre build has benefited from extensive State Aid.

Do you have any further information on the 'extensive' state aid that CityFibre's FTTP build is receiving?

CityFibre certainly built metro networks with local authorities as anchor tenants but that's definitely not state aid.

Thanks.

Many of the 'small' altnets engage in restrictive practices such as OFNL and builder specific providers and lock out Openreach from new developments.

Virgin Media engage in this lock out too. This restricts choice for residents and is probably the most anti-competitive practice in Telecoms today.

>>FWA networks which, whilst not classed as superfast due to opaque OMR assessments, provided more than adequate speeds.

I've known of FWA providers active in my locale that are too lazy to bother to engage with OMR assessments and are surprised when other providers come to the party.

I reckon 'more than adequate speeds' is down to the the market to decide rather than incumbent FWA providers.