Here is reply from PN Tech Staff

We can try changing the stability setting to Stable which should in theory influence DLM in its decision making stopping it moving the target the SNRM down to 3dB but it's not guaranteed

Quite.

Yes, my apologies I forgot about that, and I don�t think it�s a trial anymore. The way I understood that it works is that an ISP can request recalcs on a set number of lines per day, or per week. I can�t remember which.

However in my experience ISPs simply told us �we don�t get involved in DLM at all on FTTC, it�s all handled by Openreach�.

I often wondered if ISPs understood that they could now actually request it themselves under this new process. I actually don�t know much about the profiles that you speak of, never needed to get involved in that and no one ever mentioned it.

In reply to a post by Brunel:

I had a similar problem with TalkTalk. After several complaints someone called me, I explained the problem, He there and then put me on a fixed 6dB.

Not possible

Edited by deleted (Mon 07-Oct-19 15:39:27)

Definitely a trial, and not all ISP's choose to take part.

https://www.openreach.co.uk/orpg/home/updates/briefi...

https://www.openreach.co.uk/orpg/home/updates/briefi...

It was announced it was going to end in April but was announced to continue in May.
No updates since.

It is limited to 1000 lines per day.

edit: don't know how I just replied to your post but my reply is magically above yours.
ah, you double posted.

Edited by j0hn83 (Mon 07-Oct-19 17:38:58)

I don�t think that�s a trial anymore. The way I understood that it works is that an ISP can request recalcs on a set number of lines per day, or per week. I can�t remember which.

However in my experience ISPs simply told us �we don�t get involved in DLM at all on FTTC, it�s all handled by Openreach�.

I often wondered if ISPs understood that they could now actually request it themselves under this new process. I actually don�t know much about the profiles that you speak of, never needed to get involved in that and no one ever mentioned it.

This is exactly the problem I had as well!

In recent few years Openreach lowered the DLM down to 3dB which coincided with my daily internet disconnections. This is despite my line being EO.

With Sky this happened like 3-4 years ago. I had to call tech support, they sent a Sky Engineer back then and only gave me a new router. The problem did not solve.

It was only until I called again Sky and they manually set noise margin to 9dB and my disconnections stopped.

This same problem continued when last year I switched to Plusnet and in the same way it was disconnecting viciously for over a month. Regardless of how much the connection was dropping the noise margins would continue to return back to 3dB hence why the problem would never go away.

I contacted Plusnet forum for ADSL and upon capping the noise margin to 9dB immediately the problem went away.

This issue is not internal wiring in my property. It is because the Exchange Only line is over 1km long in length from exchange so there is extra noise on the line causing connection to drop out. 3dB is only suitable for rock solid lines that can maintain sync and usually when the copper line is short.

Anyway... I finally have FTTC upgraded with a cabinet that is 0.2 miles away from 1st of October. I will have to test in January after the end of my contract to see if when I switch to FTTC whether my line will cope under a 3dB noise margin profile. This is a headache that I still have as I outlined in a similar topic expressing my same concerns.

@adslmax: May I know how long your parents property is from the Fibre cabinet? This should give clues! If it is comparatively short then the problem is either line or issue with the parents property line. If it is long like 1km for example this will explain the reason for this vicious cycle of drop-outs...

In reply to a post by BLaZiNgSPEED:

@adslmax: May I know how long your parents property is from the Fibre cabinet?

Estimated Line Length In Metres 463.2 from PN GEA Test

In reply to a post by adslmax:

In reply to a post by BLaZiNgSPEED:

@adslmax: May I know how long your parents property is from the Fibre cabinet?

Estimated Line Length In Metres 463.2 from PN GEA Test

Right, there is some length. But it still shouldn't be a problem. Have you also checked here? https://www.dslchecker.bt.com/adsl/ADSLChecker.Addre...
What is the minimum speed on the Downstream Line Rate(Mbps) and Downstream Handback Threshold(Mbps) checker?

Have you also tried directly plugging in the telephone cable to the test socket by removing the master socket? https://uno.help/public/attachments/b974d2473f4eeda5...

Also have you taken a look at the miss calls on your phone? Sometimes if someone tries to call landline phone some routers cause the internet to disconnect. Make sure when there is a disconnection to dial 1471 and check for any miss calls and see if this coincides with the drop in connection.

Also make sure any wireless/ radio interference devices aren't placed near the router. I had an issue with a brand new Microwave recently which I only temporarily placed near the router before getting correct measurements for the brackets and when I was heating something on the microwave it immediately caused a connection drop-out. Moving it to the kitchen away from the router fixed this once I got the brackets measured to fit it in.

Now I know this may not be necessarily the same case. But there is this thing called REIN which can cause connection to drop out.

Also make sure to check your router up time. http://192.168.1.254/expert_user.html The expert user should show how long your router up time has lasted. If this Uptime is not maintained even after a disconnection then the problem is the router. If the Uptime continues to run then the fault is elsewhere.

Had that problem with my first Plusnet router and after a replacement the issue was fixed.

Telephone Number 01952****** on Exchange CUCKOO OAK is served by Cabinet 9

High Low High Low
VDSL Range A (Clean) 79.1 56.2 20 18.1 50.9 Available Available --
VDSL Range B (Impacted) 76.8 51.8 20 16.1 44 Available Available --

Observed Speeds

VDSL
Max Observed Downstream Speed (Mbps) 59.51
Max Upstream Observed Speed (Mbps) 17.05
Observed Date 2019-10-05

GEA Test:

Test Outcome Pass
Test Outcome Code GTC_FTTC_SERVICE_0000
Description GEA service test completed and no fault found .
Main Fault Location OK
Sync Status In Sync
Downstream Speed 59.4 Mbps
Upstream Speed 17.1 Mbps
Appointment Required N
Fault Report Advised N
NTE Power Status PowerOn
Voice Line Test Result Pass
Bridge Tap Not Detected
Radio Frequency Ingress Not Detected
Repetitive Electrical Impulse Noise Not Detected
Cross Talk Detected
Estimated Line Length In Metres 463.2
Upstream Rate Assessment Low
Downstream Rate Assessment Reasonable
Interference Pattern Not Detected
Service Impact No Impact Observed
Home Wiring Problem Not Detected
Downstream Policing Discard Rate 0.0
Customer Traffic Level Upstream and Downstream Traffic Detected
Technology VDSL
Current 15Min Bin Retrains 0
Last 15Min Bin Retrains 0
DP Type External
Profile Name 0.128M-80M Downstream 3dB, Retransmission Low - 0.128M-20M Upstream, Error Protection Off
Time Stamp 2019-09-19T16:30:00
Parameters MIN MAX AVG
Down Stream Line Rate 53.5 Mbps 59.5 Mbps 57.3 Mbps
Up Stream Line Rate 9.6 Mbps 17.4 Mbps 13.8 Mbps
Up Time 764.0 Sec 900.0 Sec 899.6 Sec
Retrains 0.0 2.0 0.0
Current and Last 15 Minute Bin Performance
Parameters Last Traffic Count(Upto 15 mins) Current Traffic Count(Upto 15 mins)
Start Time Stamp 2019-10-02T14:51:18Z 2019-10-02T15:06:18Z
Ingress Code Violation 2 3
Egress Code Violation 0 0
Errored Seconds 0 0
Severely Errored Seconds 0 0
Unavailable Seconds 0 0

Edited by adslmax (Tue 08-Oct-19 14:18:30)

There must be a fault in the line or somewhere! Do you know how long this has been persisting for? Was it recent or has it always been that way?

Downstream Speed 59.4 Mbps is at the bottom of your lowest speeds and this is not the kind of speed that is acceptable for a 3 dB noise margin. I would expect that to happen at 6 dB or 9 dB.

But at 3 dB I am expecting the speeds to be right up there in the 60s and 70s. Because imagine if now the noise margin were to be increased to 6 dB or 9 dB the speed will drop below 56.2 Mbps and may even drop below the Impacted level of 51.8 Mbps.

If the contract is already up with Plusnet, you could try changing provider. In case it is something to do with the router. If you're still in contract you could request a change of the router or if you have a spare router change it and see if this fixes the issue.

Replace the micro filter as well.

If none of this works or if this disconnection tendency always occurred under the 63 Mbps packages you may need to drop down to the 38 Mbps package. I know your parents probably won't want that, but it is highly likely that this will rectify the disconnection issue.

You can report it as a fault to Plusnet to send in an engineer. Also take a look at the rate of the disconnection and the timings. Does it happen at a particular moment in the time, or is it random? This could help you find clues on interference's.