Could it not be a backhaul issue from the AIO to the exchange, maybe they need to add more capacity there too? You would think they would have software that points this out to them, but humans are humans so maybe Homer Simpsons at the console.

Congestion on the backhaul would show as throughput being lower at peak times and higher off-peak, not a consistently low value.

A 128 port DSLAM is unlikely to max out a single gigabit backhaul at all let alone 24x7.

If throughput is consistently poor, it could also be:

- underpowered CPE router
- problem with the endpoint that the user is testing from (e.g. some antivirus programs can completely hammer the available throughput).
- user testing over wireless instead of wired
- bad CAT5 cable, or ethernet running at 100Mbps half duplex
- wrong BRAS profile has been applied (could show as higher throughput for first second or so before dropping down)

Thanks for the replies gary333/CarlITspeak

Throughput is very very constant (low), only some 45/50 users on the cab, connection, cabling, router and computer all swopped out and testing by OR engineers using their laptops with Router at master socket also Lift and shift between line cards, VLAN changed twice.

Candlerb, BRAS profile, is that unique to each user or to the cabinet ?.

KBD tests show Profile Name 0.128M-80M Downstream 5dB, Retransmission High - 0.128M-20M Upstream, Error Protection Off

Epyon, The problem with the thought that the throughput issue is down to my ISP does not explain 6 neighbours on 5 different ISP's all with slow throughput, to much of a coincidence.

I visited one of the Sky users and rang Sky support, the agent said BTW have told them nobody on this post code can have 80/20.

There is some confusion in comments from OR engineers as to which way around but, two of them have rung their level two help desk and when the central test head is ( removed or connected ) the throughput is 76Mb demonstrated by the engineer using a couple of well known speed testers.

Within 1-2 hours it's back to the mid 50's, and similar occurs if the engineer resets the DLM but the short term improvements are not as good.

The common denominator is the Dslam/cabinet and/or the way it is connected to the backhaul.

Is the fibre from the infill cabinet usually connected back to it's parent and does it share it's connection ?.

Kitz say infill cabinets are rare beasts and hearing from any of the users above about their throughput now might be a great help !.

Other than getting OR out what is your ISP saying when you raise the issue of throughput with them?

Edit: Also what are the speed predictions from the DSL checker for your property

Edit: Also if BTW say no one can have 80/20 what service are you actually on?

Edited by deleted (Sun 22-Dec-19 15:17:50)

rang Sky support, the agent said BTW have told them nobody on this post code can have 80/20.

I suspect that this is down to Sky not being aware that you are on a new infill AIO rather than a more distant cab? Your sync speeds tells us that Sky support are incorrect.

In reply to a post by lmschuffer:

Kitz say infill cabinets are rare beasts and hearing from any of the users above about their throughput now might be a great help !.

We were on Embleton (NEEN) cabinet 1 which is over a mile away and getting 14Mbps down when FTTC was first made available. AIO infill Cabinet 5 was installed two or three years ago about 250m. from our address. Originally sync'd at 79999 and downloading at about 74/75 Mbps. Now seeing the effects of greater usage and cross-talk. We've been sync'd as low as 73013 and are currently back at 79999 after a cabinet problem (so we must have been one of the first to regain connection). SNR is currently 2.7 - 2.8 dB so a re-sync and a drop in the sync speed would not surprise me. Connection is now set to retransmission high and we are seeing about 66Mbps download when averaged across a number of testers.

The common denominator is the Dslam/cabinet and/or the way it is connected to the backhaul.

The common denominator could also be the exchange.

There is nothing special about All In One cabinets except the green shell covering it.

Is the fibre from the infill cabinet usually connected back to it's parent and does it share it's connection ?.

No. It has its own link like any other cabinet.

Kitz say infill cabinets are rare beasts and hearing from any of the users above about their throughput now might be a great help !.

Kitz said that about 5 years ago before infilling became more common.
There are probably thousands of AIO cabinets on the network now.

Your AIO cabinet is very unlikely to be a bottleneck. Especially with 45/50 users on it.
They do up to 128 ports as standard but this can be doubled to 256 ports/users with no capacity issues.

I visited one of the Sky users and rang Sky support, the agent said BTW have told them nobody on this post code can have 80/20.

Wow. Utter nonsense.

Sky don't buy from, order from, or use BTw at all for FTTC.
It's OpenReach who are responsible for the FTTC cabinets.

Only ISP's who use BTw backhaul would get messages like that about capacity but Sky don't use BTw.
BTw play zero part in Sky FTTC.

If you provide the cabinet number and exchange then it's easy to check if 80/20 is blocked from being ordered in seconds.

Edited by j0hn83 (Sun 22-Dec-19 17:15:48)

dect.
My ISP has, and is, very cooperative and I have a dedicated agent.
I have had some 15 + OR engineers visits.
DSL checker 80/20
From KDB is says 80/20 profile
Router log today shows
Data rate: 20.00 Mbps / 80.00 Mbps
Maximum data rate: 26928 / 93048 nothing wrong with my copper.
Noise margin: 15.5 dB / 8.1 dB
Line attenuation: 8.3 dB
Signal attenuation: 0 dB / 8.3 dB
Copper length 170 Mtrs

Much has been done by OR in an attempt to solve the issue, at the original cabinet bypassing the copper links between the PCP and VDSL, also removing the old ADSL links in the exchange.

Best we can tell, the comment in the KDB test saying error correction is off means vectoring is not employed, I have asked most of the visiting engineers if vectoring is on but they have no way of checking, my question would be if crosstalk reduction is effective and is available why would you not use it ?

It's very clear that the way infill's are commissioned is very different and as they are rare beasts most engineers have no experience of them and the way they are connected, see comments from AngS above about a period of being connected to both cabinets at the same time, which also happened to me.

MCM
The very point I made to the agent.
The other sky user got an email a while back ( maybe 12 + months ) saying they were going to upgrade him from 40/10 to 80/20 at no extra charge.
Some months later another email saying, sorry can't upgrade you as we promised due to network issues.
Looks like they were aware a new cab was available as the original cabinet is to far away to get more than 15/16 Mb so they would not have made the offer.

GonePostal
Thanks for this, what this confirms for me is that A10 infill's are most certainly capable of 80/20 and do not suffer any inherent issues.
At 14 Mb on a good day from the old cabinet clearly 50Mb is for me a big improvement and my ISP said I should get a guaranteed minimum of 70 so I still have a way to go, but, it never feels that fast, ever, I have to run an add blocker otherwise I'm waiting ages for a internet page to load whilst it gets the adds.

The BTW speed tester use to have a further diagnostics button which enabled you to see your IPprofile but it has now been removed, which might point to BRAS issues, having said that I have been unable to run that for ages, always got a error writing to server.

There is some confusion in comments from OR engineers as to which way around but, two of them have rung their level two help desk and when the central test head is ( removed or connected ) the throughput is 76Mb demonstrated by the engineer using a couple of well known speed testers.

That sounds to me like what you have is slow throughput speeds. The level two support can get on the connection and have it run to test access rather than through to the specific ISP .... if this then gets good speeds, you can be 99.9% sure the issue is at or inside the ISP network.